Funny thing "faction diversity" in most cases can be finded in post about nerfing cybran some way.

The DPS of a seraphim ghetto would still be roughly 20% lower, for about the same cost, as other factions (slightly less mass cost, but more build time required to get 8 selens out because of roll-off time, and sera transports take longer to load). If you landed the transport before it died, and had 8 selens running around enemy territory, all hiding themselves and giving free radar, that might offset the downsides of your early seraphim ghetto not having as much DPS. Even a low-dps ghetto could still effectively kill off engineers, it just wouldn't be as good for situations where you want to fire continuously.

If we messed with the balance to make a seraphim ghetto more feasible (such as increasing cost + dps of selens) I think that would be fine. I like seraphim and i like selens so maybe I'm biased here. I wouldn't mind if they were 10% better at killing engineers even if i had to pay a little bit more for them.

Edited by removing the tank changes... I actually have no problem with the current tank balance, mantis has the upper edge over the Striker but that plays into the cybran rush tactics and rewards a early t2 push for uef since they have a much better t2... No reason tanks all need to be perfectly equal...

She’s off the rails mate

Just remove seraphmi, cybran and aeon from the game. All hail the uef mirror matchup. Perfect balance.

Mech marines are based. Its like a mini peewee.

Yeah, good enough for now, in the future someone can redo it so the animation speeds up if you assist it.

Interesting idea.

A lot of maps have been made already without taking this into account, so it might break balance on some maps. But my guess is that it's not too much of an issue.

Ah too bad. Thanks for the reply anyway.

Cybran were supposed to be about stealth, mobility, viciousness, and adaptability/multipurpose. It's why so many Cybran units have torpedoes or the t1/t3 anti-air can shoot the ground. Their original name was "Recyclers," where recycling is just another word for reclaiming. Zero sentimentality, just totally practical, often inspired by bugs whereas UEF is obviously inspired by modern US military.

Aeon were supposed to be severe, extreme single-minded zealots, fitting in with their "religious fanatic" background. Hence why their units often do exactly 1 thing really really well but are missing basic stuff, like frigates and destroyers not having anti-air. Oblivion turrets fire slowly but are devastating. Aeon doesn't worry about overkill.

These lofty ideas don't always show up in a pure way in the game. For example, the Monkeylord has lots of abilities (stealth, speed, torpedoes, anti-air) so it is a good example of an adaptable, bug-like unit. But also it's the cheapest big laser platform out of any faction. So you could consider it to be a "single-minded" single-purpose weapon consistent with the aeon theme.

Similarly, the Megalith has lots of HP compared to the Fatboy. And Bricks are extremely tanky. If we wanted to elevate faction themes over gameplay balance we could "fix" those things but then the game probably becomes unfun. I do think the game designers did a great job of giving personality to each faction.

The Czar really doesn't make sense as an aircraft carrier. If you could have a Czar that is 10k mass cheaper without the carrier abilities (build, store, and repair t1-t3 aircraft) you would almost ALWAYS take the stripped-down version. That's why the Czar should have the factory abilities removed. It's fine if it is a flying air staging but it shouldn't be able to make air units.

@FunkOff I systematically disagree with almost every single point you made in your original post.

T1 UEF tank. Highest HP, lowest DPS, slightly below average speed, highest cost, 1 rank vet adds extra acu shot to kill, etc... Lots of differences between the T1 tanks. However when used the sum total of their differences balance out resulting in no faction having a distinct advantage. E.g. yes the striker may be very very very slightly inferior to other t1 tanks, but UEF T1 factory has 500+ more hp for no additional cost making t1 arty take longer to kill it. Little things like this make the T1 phase balanced. T1 UEF bomber has a different play style to a basic bomber (like the Sinnve). Just use it in a way that capitalises on it's AOE plus high damage. If units dodge it reliably, rejoice because you know the enemy is burning APM which you aren't. T2 UEF static arty is the second cheapest, not most expensive. T2 UEF PD is most expensive but the best all rounder, with highest HP, second lowest DPS, tied best AOE, good high fire arc and quick fire cycle. This makes it the best all rounder T2 PD in the game. If you desire a more specialised PD, play another faction. Aeon for alpha damage + slow fire cycle, cybran for cheap fast lazers and seraphim for... honestly not sure. Rhino never kill mongoose if mongoose are microed. They have too much range and speed. Pillars cost 68% of the mass of a Rhino so they obviously lose 1v1. FtXCommando also illustrated what advantages Pillars have over Rhino. Janus may not be fantastic at sniping eco structures like other factions fighter/bombers but that doesn't mean they suck. Like the UEF T1 bomber it is about using them for the right job. E.g. Abuse their AOE and high DPS to swathe large chunks out of your opponents land army for instance. T3 UEF land is almost a timebomb and possibly the strongest lategame. Percival is borderline OP and a fantastic unit! Titans are shielded raid lords of destruction. T3 UEF air is the same as all the others. T3 air (excluding Shocker) is about as perfectly balanced as possible. Sure the T1 UEF frigate might not be the best (like cybran) but it has jamming. T2 UEF destroyer might not be the best (like aeon) but you have the shield boat. T3 UEF navy more than makes up for any inefficiency in the earlier stages and is very powerful.

At the end of the day, it really comes down to how you use the pieces of the UEF army. Each unit can be viewed as a tool designed for a specific job. Use it for the wrong job and it's effectiveness drops.

are we talking about for mods? I would support adding engineering stations to all factions as a way to keep things in line.

@ETFreeman What you are saying is how can I defeat my guncom opponent without upgrading my own com? Units only?

This is kind of a silly decision, but it is however possible. The real logic table for bread and butter play is gun com and prevent turtle, or turtle and prevent pushes from your opponent and beat them into t2 arty creep. If you are ruling out these two very very very standard options, you will need to simply outnumber them

The build you need calls for mass factory drop and t1 tank/ arty spam. You will also need to essentially feign defeat when he comes in with his gun com and let him move forward some, then having built up numbers from your large number of t1 factories, run him over with your units and just keep your com out of it, or mopping up some back units (its severely outranged).

T2 units die to quick to oc so just use numbers of t1 and a bit of surprise to catch him off guard. Again I emphasize the need to let him "win" some and lose only a few units while getting him charging recklessly forward, then go in for the kill.

No guarantee you'll polish off the com here, but you can beat that timing just by backing up just a bit and swarming.

Really though, use the main two options the most. They have higher success rates.

You can't stack nano and t2 on sera com if you want to go splash in 5 minutes (the true rambo com upgrade), therefore the upgrade stacking argument is invalid (splash needs buffing as you have to have already won for it to do anything in team games).

@Archsimkat I support your proposed reduction of reclaim rate. I however do not know to what degree of reduction would be appropriate.
@Keene your suggestion too keep the rate at which an engineer can reclaim hostile units is good and I support this notion.

Cringe post stop writing like you're defending a dissertation.

Well, I overread the statement about the engineering station. It's hell about time. Thanks.

Still, consider to stop BT nerfing anyway, as compensation by "just more engy stations" will harm sim speed - for effectively no real change.

Aeon destros are very nice, though - I skeert of Aeon navy.

Usually if I can spam enough frigates I don't particularly care too much if my opponent has gone HQ, unless he/she is aeon. I often skip over t2 entirely because them destros are so nice.

Where kibran is concerned - the T2 naval AA game is just too weak and torpcucking is a problem much more so than other factions, who have shields, hoverflak and less overkilly cruisers.

Telemazer is really only a last-ditch gambit; the power cost is astronomical to obtain and savvy opponents always know it's coming.

Is it fun? Yes. Satisfying when you pull it off and maybe even win the game. However it's got a smell to it; a poor substitute in lieu of having dominated.

I'm always looking for more ways to have shens, and tbh I'd rather have rapid fabrication than mazer if you have to have a telecombo.

Having mazer alone is a useful teledef in of itself but that cancels out its utility. I'd rather make mazer cheaper to get and get rid of the telemazing combo entirely.

Ftx after having thought about it and talked with some folks on the faf discord a couple hour after I posted this, I actually realize this was actually terrible idea. But yes the point would be to remove '10-40' second delay. So there isn't a pause in gameplay that you described.

-Through I do kinda think be a way to make air fights more organic thinking what you said. Vs Big Moshpit of Inties you need proper scout coverage and inties not all in one area to stop this