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    The current pre-release of the client ("pioneer" in the version) is only compatible to itself. So you can only play with other testers. Please be aware!

    UEF sucks - Beefy structures don't offset severe weaknesses

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Balance Discussion
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    • F Offline
      FunkOff
      last edited by

      UEF sucks in 1v1s and team games. Here's why:
      1- Worst T1 tank. The Striker is slower, has lower DPS, and is more expensive than Mantis and Thaam. It loses to them 1v1 and in groups.
      2- T1 bomber is good against structures but not against units. Easily worst bomber against Auroras or other mobile units.
      3- Most unarmed structures - mex, pgens, factories - have more health, but this advantage is offset by most expensive T2 artillery and T2 PD. If UEF is turtle faction, why have most expensive defenses? The T2 PD and T2 artillery are not bad, but they aren't any better to justify increased cost.
      4- T2 land is not very good. Pillars and mongeese are spanked so hard by Rhinos it's ridiculous. UEF T2 land isnt as bad as Aeon's, but it's no advantage.
      5- T2 air lacks a good snipe option. This is a huge weakness any way you slice it. Janus is only really good against T1 units and structures and is the worst bomber for killing T2 pgens, mex, and acus.
      6- UEF T3 land and air are decent, but not advantageous enough to offset the disadvantages of T1 and T2 stages.
      7- T1 navy is almost as bad as Aeon's. T2 Navy is worse than Aeon's with worst destroyer in all of FAF. (Although UEF's T3 navy is very good.)

      Overall, UEF's main strengths at T1 and T2 are tough ACU with cheap nano upgrade and unusually tough base structures. I think UEF needs a few small buffs, and targeting these on the T2 PD and T2 artillery are the best places, I think, to give UEF a few extra avantages. Maybe the torp launchers, too, to help with navy (And because all torp launchers suck.)

      FtXCommandoF FemtoZettaF archsimkatA 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • MachM Offline
        Mach
        last edited by

        well just saying rhino cant hit anything behind a slightest slope, unlike pillar and mongoose, which can turn its dps to 0 in those situations

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        • Dragun101D Offline
          Dragun101
          last edited by

          I mean UEF is best T2 unless want to argue Ishis too strong nerf pls. UEF T2 Units are cheap. Pillar 33% less than Rhino. Likewise with Mongooses making them easy to mass + Mobile Shields.

          I’m a shitty 1k Global. Any balance or gameplay suggestions should be understood or taken as such.

          Project Head and current Owner/Manager of SCTA Project

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          • TheWeakieT Offline
            TheWeakie
            last edited by

            What universe are you living in that you think rhino's are not only better than uef t2, but hardcounter them?

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
            • FtXCommandoF Offline
              FtXCommando @FunkOff
              last edited by

              @FunkOff said in UEF sucks - Beefy structures don't offset severe weaknesses:

              4- T2 land is not very good. Pillars and mongeese are spanked so hard by Rhinos it's ridiculous. UEF T2 land isnt as bad as Aeon's, but it's no advantage.

              Almost baited a response before reading that

              F 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
              • MazorNoobM Offline
                MazorNoob
                last edited by MazorNoob

                UEF T2 PD is not the most expensive, Aeon is. It also has a decent rate of fire, 3 AOE and 40% more DPS compared to e.g. Cybran PD while being just 10% more expensive.

                (Actually nevermind, things changed trom the last time I checked. Still 25% more DPS + AOE for 15% more mass.)

                F 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • E Offline
                  Explosive
                  last edited by

                  I think UEF is strong actually

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                  • F Offline
                    FunkOff @FtXCommando
                    last edited by

                    @FtXCommando I had a recent game in which I lost 10 pillars to 5 rhinos and 4 of the Rhinos survived. Mongeese fair even worse due to the extremely low health. I will say, I think Mongoose is better than Hopilite, but Rhino beats both Mongoose and Pillar easily.

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                    • FtXCommandoF Offline
                      FtXCommando
                      last edited by FtXCommando

                      Pillar and rhino are basically equivalent in mass for mass engagement. Point is that pillar loses less utility due to OC killing less mass each shot and it can also do more damage for the same mass cost due to being able to attack more locations at once.

                      Mongoose I'd say is worse than hoplite but UEF have mobile shields which immediately make mongoose absolutely destroy like any other T2 force given good micro.

                      There is no planet in this universe or the FA universe where UEF isn't the best T2.

                      F 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                      • FemtoZettaF Offline
                        FemtoZetta @FunkOff
                        last edited by

                        Some of these are epic meme tier, like saying Mongoose and Pillars are bad and lose vs Rhinos or saying that tanky buildings are offset by expensive PD and artillery somehow 🤣. The PD difference is only 2% more than Aeon/Sera, so after 5 T2 PDs it's about 1 T1 tank difference, and the T2 artillery is actually the 2nd cheapest, so not expensive at all??
                        Also, in 1vs1 Striker wins vs Thaam, while Thaam draws with Mantis (unmicroed).

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                        • F Offline
                          FunkOff @FtXCommando
                          last edited by

                          @FtXCommando What would be a good sandbox test of Rhino vs Pillar/Mongoose? I on paper, Rhino's stats are nothing exceptional, but I think the recent range buff over the pillar makes a big difference, as does the fact that Rhinos have lasers and so the hits are instant and rarely miss. They are the Seraphim destroyer of T2 land combat, they can dodge all day whilst never missing themselves.

                          It is true that bumps in terrain can reduce Rhino effectiveness, but most modern maps are designed to be very flat to eliminate this effect., particularly ladder maps. (I'm in favor of this, by the way, Rhino behavior should be predictable.)

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                          • F Offline
                            FunkOff @FtXCommando
                            last edited by

                            @FtXCommando I consider T2 in basically 3 ways. First is small numbers of T2 against T1 spam. Rhinos and Ilshovahs are easily the best T2 units against mass T1 armies. Second is mass T2 vs T2, "mass" being 10+ units. Here, the Rhino advantage over the Pillar is reduced, but not eliminated. I don't actually think 5 pillars + 1 shield can beat 3 Rhinos (microed). The final is many T2 against a few T3. UEF probably has the best ability to fight T3 with T2. Tanky pillars + shields + mongoose can beat small numbers of Loyalists or Harbingers.

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                            • F Offline
                              FunkOff @MazorNoob
                              last edited by

                              @MazorNoob Yes, UEF T2 PD is most expensive and has like 30% less DPS than Seraphim PD. UEF T2 PD isnt the worst, generally, but it's the most expensive and that is a disadvantage.

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                              • FtXCommandoF Offline
                                FtXCommando
                                last edited by FtXCommando

                                Sandboxing this stuff is kinda pointless. Yeah ok I can sandbox a pillar kiting an obsidian and killing it. Does that make obsidian garbage? No.

                                Pillar has far more in game utility than Rhino, I explained above why. You get it out quicker, you get it out in more areas, and you are not punished by OC anywhere near as hard. Mongoose + Shields are just the absolutely dominant unit mix against anything before T3 assuming proper apm and kite space.

                                If rhinos are kiting your pillars, then why didn't you make mongoose. Obviously the map has room for kiting, so abuse the range bot for free kills against the faction with no shields.

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                                • F Offline
                                  FunkOff
                                  last edited by

                                  In ranked games, I usually prefer Mongoose over Pillars as UEF, this is who I can safely say that Rhinos > UEF, because the small range advantage is totally eclipsed by the Rhino's speed, HP, and damage advantages.

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                                  • archsimkatA Offline
                                    archsimkat @FunkOff
                                    last edited by

                                    @FunkOff said in UEF sucks - Beefy structures don't offset severe weaknesses:

                                    2- T1 bomber is good against structures but not against units. Easily worst bomber against Auroras or other mobile units.

                                    The UEF t1 bomber is incredibly strong due to its high damage. The multiple bombs means that it performs better against dodging engineers/units compared to other factions.

                                    4- T2 land is not very good. Pillars and mongeese are spanked so hard by Rhinos it's ridiculous. UEF T2 land isnt as bad as Aeon's, but it's no advantage.

                                    Is this satire? UEF has the strongest early T2 stage...

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                                    • ArranA Offline
                                      Arran
                                      last edited by

                                      @FunkOff I systematically disagree with almost every single point you made in your original post.

                                      1. T1 UEF tank. Highest HP, lowest DPS, slightly below average speed, highest cost, 1 rank vet adds extra acu shot to kill, etc... Lots of differences between the T1 tanks. However when used the sum total of their differences balance out resulting in no faction having a distinct advantage. E.g. yes the striker may be very very very slightly inferior to other t1 tanks, but UEF T1 factory has 500+ more hp for no additional cost making t1 arty take longer to kill it. Little things like this make the T1 phase balanced.
                                      2. T1 UEF bomber has a different play style to a basic bomber (like the Sinnve). Just use it in a way that capitalises on it's AOE plus high damage. If units dodge it reliably, rejoice because you know the enemy is burning APM which you aren't.
                                      3. T2 UEF static arty is the second cheapest, not most expensive. T2 UEF PD is most expensive but the best all rounder, with highest HP, second lowest DPS, tied best AOE, good high fire arc and quick fire cycle. This makes it the best all rounder T2 PD in the game. If you desire a more specialised PD, play another faction. Aeon for alpha damage + slow fire cycle, cybran for cheap fast lazers and seraphim for... honestly not sure.
                                      4. Rhino never kill mongoose if mongoose are microed. They have too much range and speed. Pillars cost 68% of the mass of a Rhino so they obviously lose 1v1. FtXCommando also illustrated what advantages Pillars have over Rhino.
                                      5. Janus may not be fantastic at sniping eco structures like other factions fighter/bombers but that doesn't mean they suck. Like the UEF T1 bomber it is about using them for the right job. E.g. Abuse their AOE and high DPS to swathe large chunks out of your opponents land army for instance.
                                      6. T3 UEF land is almost a timebomb and possibly the strongest lategame. Percival is borderline OP and a fantastic unit! Titans are shielded raid lords of destruction. T3 UEF air is the same as all the others. T3 air (excluding Shocker) is about as perfectly balanced as possible.
                                      7. Sure the T1 UEF frigate might not be the best (like cybran) but it has jamming. T2 UEF destroyer might not be the best (like aeon) but you have the shield boat. T3 UEF navy more than makes up for any inefficiency in the earlier stages and is very powerful.

                                      At the end of the day, it really comes down to how you use the pieces of the UEF army. Each unit can be viewed as a tool designed for a specific job. Use it for the wrong job and it's effectiveness drops.

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