THE ENGIE SYNDROME: "GIVE ENGIE" / "ДАЙ ИНЖА"

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DISCLAIMER

READ AT YOUR OWN RISK

What you are about to read is real, it has not been edited in any way or form so as to alter the concealed idea of the observations.

The most observations were taken during prolonged gameplay on THE DUAL GAP. That's right, the Gap! If you dislike, hate or have any negative prejudice towards THE MAP, leave this page immediately.

Now that's out of the way, let's continue.

ATTENTION

What follows is pure free, uncontested reclaim, claim if you dare.

THE WHAT?

THE ENGIE SYNDROME

THE SYNDROME?

Yes, the Syndrome, the Engie Syndrome. The "GIVE ME AN ENGIE, ДАЙ ИНЖА, Т1 TO PLAYER1 , T2 TO PLAYER2, T3 TO PLAYER3".

SO WHAT?

So lets take a closer look in the matter.

GENERAL RUNDOWN

So, the 6 v 6, the Dual Gap, the game starts. Big boom, your ACU has teleported in, you are placing your 8 mexes, thinking what you will go for in this match, should you go for three or four t1 power generators, what to reclaim, where to reclaim, and so on... 10 seconds into the game, 10 seconds into your plans, until all out of the sudden a text marker appears inside your base, above your ACU: "T3 ECO".

Now your plans are gone, they are compromised by some one else's plans, by the plans to get the technology that the one who asks doesn't have, the technology that the one who is asking could posses by picking the appropriate faction.

Wait, wait, I explain this in more detail.

Your plans for the game
->
Intrusion into your plans by a demand
->
Your plans are gone, well, at least they got hampered, you got distracted, distracted from your true intention to play as you intended, that special attitude with which you started the game is gone.

Let's examine the reason behind asking for your technology, for your engineer.

In case of an eco player, It goes something like this:

"Okay, I will pick SERAPHIM because I like how it looks, and when the game starts I gonna ask one of my teammates for an CYBRAN engineer (gotta have those hives), and I gonna ask one of my teammates for an UEF engineer (gonna build myself a big Mavor with hives), and I gonna ask one of my teammates for AEON (gonna build an eye for myself, gonna see everything, because kcuf air players, constantly asking them to scout? - kcuf that. Air players scouting? - no need, I got eye, I look where I want, when I want.)".

So, basically, the idea is: GIVE ME YOUR TECHNOLOGY AND GET LOST.

What do you do when someone asks you for your engineer?

Do you give the engineer?

If you do, with what thoughts are you giving the engineer?

"Here is the engineer, now kcuf off, I am back to my original plans"?

Or

"Here you go, I glad I could help you (or the team?)"?

What do you think? Does the player who asked you for the engineer, has some kind of other grand cooperative plans for the match that involve you and him working together after you have given him an engineer?

Or that you are instantly forgotten after giving the desired technology.

I understand that the answer depends on the individual people who ask for engies, but let's be honest, what do you think is the answer? What have you seen for yourself?

AND NOW, THE UNCONTESTED RECLAIM

When some one distracts you by asking for an engineer, can you say "NO"?

Did you ever say "NO"?

Ever considered saying "NO"?

Woundered what would happen if you would say "NO"?

I did, and I found out.

During prolonged activity on the DUAL GAP (gotta love that map) I constantly refused the requests for an engineer from my teammates.

HOW IT WAS?

It was like this:

I always picked random faction, if I got CYBRAN I always played CYBRAN without hives.

I have never asked teammates for their engineers, if someone gave me an engineer without me asking that person, I would express my gratitude, and also I would point out to him that I didn't ask him for his engineer, that he has wasted his time, resources and attention on something that wasn't required.

Always, when I was asked for an engineer, I refused by explaining.

THE EXPLANATION?

The explanations went something like this:

"No, I don't share engies, I don't like it. For me teamplay is more than just giving your technology to someone and be instantly forgotten".

For me teamplay is the coordinated actions between the team members.

COORDINATED ACTIONS? ARE YOU RETARDED? GIVE ME AN ENGINEER!

Yes, coordinated actions:

Your army, my army, combined maneuvers, combined attacks.
Air cover, close air support, scouting and reporting.
Reporting your important observations by means of the text markers.
Rushing an Omni Sensor for your team, because it happens so that situation allows you to get the Omni up way faster than anyone on your team can.
Covering the weak spots of teammate's base with your shields. Assisting teammate's shields.
Building TMD for your teammate, because you have spotted a threat of a TML, and for some reason the teammate can't address the issue by himself at that exact moment.
Rushing the first SMD because you got dat juicy reclaim on the mid. Assisting in building the first SMD and loading it. Building a backup SMD.
Building AA or additional AA for your teammate, because you reckon that this is necessary.
Assisting in team building by your own build power
Rclaiming everything while you float.
Float and not drop energy.
Warn your teammate when you see that his ACU's safety is compromised.
Team effort in denying the enemy reclaim.
"Insert your example here".

YOU ARE DEFINITELY RETARDED, GIVE ME AN ENGINEER! NOW!

And at this point, I just kinda say "No" and keep on with my part in the teamplay without giving an engineer.

AND NOW, HERE IS WHERE THE THINGS GET REAL UGLY

Example: I got CYBRAN, I am next to eco, eco asks for an engineer (I wounder why), and I refuse - and the reaction?

THE REACTION

The reaction varies, but the most common form of reaction is aggression.

The aggression all the way from insults to the refusing in any type of cooperation ("Seriously, you are not giving me an engineer, because you don't want to, and still asking me to scout? - kcuf you").

And in some rare, severe cases the player who asked for an engineer and got refused, CTRL + K his ACU (happened, not one time, no joke) - seems funny at first, but it is not: your teammate committed suicide, because you refused to give him an engineer... Wait, now it is more funny, but still, kinda sad.

AND THE PROBLEM

The problem lies within the player's negative reaction towards refusal in giving an engineer.

I don't want to dive deep into the all psychology things, but the outline is selfishness: I want - you don't give - you bad.

In some players there is little to no respect for other player's opinions and decisions.

NOT ALL PLAYERS ARE LIKE THAT.
I HAVE ENCOUNTERED REAL TRUE PLAYERS IN THE FAF.
THEY ARE PROBABLY THE MAIN REASON, I KEEP RETURNING BACK FOR MORE.

REGARDING THE TEAMPLAY QUESTION

I can't stress enough by trying to get the point across, that sharing your technology is not the most important aspect of cooperative gameplay of the
Supreme Commander - Forged Alliance (Forever).

BUT, THERE IS MORE

Some players start asking for engineers long way into the game.

Wondering why some ask at the beginning of the game and others some time into the game?

The most common occasion, is that the player realizes that his plans and his actions according to his plans didn't bring sufficient enough results to tip the favor for his team.

At this point the player doesn't know what to do next, and the only good option he sees is the acquiring of the technology of other faction with a believe that asking for AEON and building the Tempest will suddenly win him the navy fight, or by building the Ahwasa it will win the air.

If you are something like that, or anything like that, my advice for you is this:
When you see that your plans have failed, or your plans didn't gain the desired result, when you realize that you alone are not able to win the game, look at your team, look at what your teammates are doing, pick one of the team's activities, the activity that you think will bring your team closer to victory and assist that activity, send some build power to assist, or help how you can.

But remember, in any case and at any time there is still three most important responsibilities that you must fulfill:

As far as practicable, keep at all times the approaches to your team's base safe (hold the line).

Deny the enemy all the mass that you can (deny enemy reclaim).

And reclaim all the mass that you can, even if you are overflowing, overflow goes to the team (reclaim everything).

AND EVEN MORE (THE HIVES)

Can't go without hives, cmon.

There is that one special type of players who absolutely can't build anything without hives. No hives - no game.

So that kind of players constantly distract others only for the reason that they can't play without hives and that they didn't pick CYBRAN, - seems fair, right?

AND HERE ARE SOME OF THE SYMPTOMS OF THE SYNDROME

Dual Gap, match starts, factory in construction, 3 text markers "T1 for eco" appear atop 3 different player's bases .

Text marker "T1 engie to "insert name here"" directly atop of your ACU.

Text marker "T1 engie to "insert name here"" directly at the center of your base - basically, it means that your whole game must be centered on providing the T1 engineer to someone, to someone who didn't picked what he could pick by himself.

You mastered an offensive plan, you gathered your forces, the forces are at their positions, posed to strike, waiting for the move order, and finally, you issue that order - the assault begins, the battle can determine the outcome of the match, utmost attention is required to successfully carry out the intended plan, (!) text marker appears at your base "t1 navy" - happens all the time.

You are on the mid, you are in a gunfight with your ACU against the enemy ACU, every giant robot step counts, "t1 air" text marker appears at your base, and the marker gets pinged at.

"T3 to eco" atop your base 15 second into the match - you must forget all your plans and focus on reaching the T3 as soon as possible to give an T3 engineer to the eco player.

Some players without them being asked, give each team member an engineer - basically, it means: "Here is an engineer, don't bother me".

BOTTOM LINE

Selfishness all around, but don't get me wrong, I am also selfish, but there is a big difference in being selfish and caring for other people's interests and opinions, and being selfish and holding no thought for other people's interests and opinions.

So, what are you trying to say is that those people are bad?

No, they are not, they just don't get it yet, they don't get that some one, even someone on their team can say "No" to them.

LONG LIVE THE FAF

Wanted to put this out there.

Hopefully, someone will find this information useful or / and entertaining.

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you owe me 10 irl mins for making me read this.

queuing with a newbie to show him the beauty of tmm and meeting tagada be like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLcRpdZ0Xb0&ab_channel=Tomoko

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You people actually read this?

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Well they did say read at your own risk!

More for the benefit of newer players who read this, if a teammate asks you for an engineer, you aren't obliged to provide it (although it's often a good idea since what also often happens, as described here, is they can get very angry about not receiving the engineer). If they then ctrl-K their ACU in response to your refusal (as described here) they're breaching the FAF rules and you can report them.

The above is a big reason why for a long time I liked playing Astro craters out of the 3 maps that seemed to be played on FAF (Setons, Gap, Astro), since at the time 4v4 TMM wasn't a thing and I really dislike maps where your team expects/demands you to play a particular way and you dont have the freedom to experiment with your own battle plans.
Fortunately now I have TMM and while a few maps there might be an expected air or navy slot it's fairly rare to get pings as described in the OP.

M27AI developer; Devlog and more general AI development guide:
https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v66-devlog

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i would add a game option to prevent the exange of factories or engineer.
(or you can only change units if you have the same faction)

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Just demand more engineers or resources from them in exchange for the engineer, you clearly have the stronger bargaining position and should be able to make a deal.

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@uveso said in THE ENGIE SYNDROME: "GIVE ENGIE" / "ДАЙ ИНЖА":

i would add a game option to prevent the exange of factories or engineer.
(or you can only change units if you have the same faction)

this is already a thing btw

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@fiercelv i too would like my 10 minutes back.

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Thank you for the most entertaining read yet in 2023, here's to many more coming!

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I send an engie to their base, wait for them to ping it so that I'm sure they're watching it. Then I ctrl+k it.

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Also known as the "mid or feed" syndrome.

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Geez, if you can give an engineer just do it. Maybe ask for one in return. Or say soon if now doesn't suit. Otherwise why are you playing a team game!

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I did enjoy it to some extent

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I read the disclaimer and assumed it was yet more ChatGPT junk

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I mean you can not expect the moderators to not read something that says "you don't HAVE to read this because I'm assuring you there is no need to nudge nudge wink wink".

@FierceLV Yeah I feel, but maybe I'm mistaken, there are 3 things at hand here.
2 were already covered by others:

  1. You have no obligation to give units to anyone. Ever. Period.
  2. If they go ballistic and decide to Ctrl-K, there are 3 things you should do: report, blacklist and rejoice. Why Rejoice? Well you or one of your teammates were just promoted to having additional mexes, and having someone ahead in eco is really good in these types of maps.

The third point is: you do know you can actually remove those pings markers? As you mentioned, some players are narcissistic enough to expect from other players to play the way THEY imagined, often placing a bunch of markers on what to do, when to do it and how to do it (including, but not limited to 'give me engie').

Moving aside your potentially personal problem of ignoring/denying narcissistic pursuits (please work on this for your own sake), and having a hard time ignoring their 'commands', I'd recommend you start simply deleting those markers - it'll help your mind game so much. Being totally taken aback by these and preventing you from keeping a level head is a 'you' problem, and that's something you'll have to work on by yourself, on yourself. But if you want to help yourself, take the first step and just start deleting them. It's simple as that.

My own experience with asking for engie is usually when I play sera in the naval position, and I really want either a UEF or cybran engie for the sonar. But then some misunderstand me and I have to wait for a long time for them to give me the T2 engie. But I don't play a lot of Gap given it's a large game and my CPU is somewhat shite.

@FtXCommando Savage. I love it.

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just gift the engie especially if its t1, swallow your pride

put the xbox units in the game pls u_u

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Sharing engies is enormously powerful in the game. Play as a team = win as a team

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it is powerful for wrong reasons -> removes faction diversity because every player gets access to every faction's unique unit, making them ironically, not unique

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@mach said in THE ENGIE SYNDROME: "GIVE ENGIE" / "ДАЙ ИНЖА":

it is powerful for wrong reasons -> removes faction diversity because every player gets access to every faction's unique unit, making them ironically, not unique

This

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You have to progress through the tech tree of each faction's tech, you don't instantly get access to every unit. Usually people get engies for Hives, Sera shields, or whatever experimental

put the xbox units in the game pls u_u