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    Reduce T2 Air Snipes

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Balance Discussion
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    • S Offline
      Sainse @Caliber
      last edited by

      @Caliber I'm 1700 too, it doesn't happen all the time. It's easy to scout and requires simply making ints or flaks to counter. Not a rocket science really

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      • N Offline
        Nuggets @Sainse
        last edited by

        @Sainse said in Reduce T2 Air Snipes:

        It's not prevalent in high rated lobbies cause this tactic is an easy way to lose as well

        Not really true. Its not done because its a rat move that ruins the game

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        • CaliberC Offline
          Caliber
          last edited by

          I just foed sui for this exact thing just made corsair whole game killed like 5 players

          players under shields and flak still died in one pass

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          • IndexLibrorumI Offline
            IndexLibrorum Global Moderator
            last edited by

            Now that sounds like a fun replay to watch. ID?

            "Design is an iterative process. The required number of iterations is one more than the number you have currently done. This is true at any point in time."

            See all my projects:

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            • CaliberC Offline
              Caliber
              last edited by

              @IndexLibrorum that would just provide a reason for people to comment on play, im not looking for advice like you should have built more flak bla bla.

              Im just trying to suggest that it is too easy in team games to abuse T2 Air, that is all.

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              • waffelzNoobW Offline
                waffelzNoob
                last edited by

                bad idea to make these weird exclusive rules like air units dealing less damage to ACUs only. its just confusing.
                however, i am on board for a t2 air nerf. is there anyone that isnt?

                frick snoops!

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                • CaliberC Offline
                  Caliber
                  last edited by

                  @waffelzNoob not exlusive

                  Overcharge limited at 400 damage to ACU

                  ACU explosion limits stucture damage to 80

                  Theres probably more examples but thats all i can think of right now.

                  Sladow-NoobS ZLOZ waffelzNoobW 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • Sladow-NoobS Offline
                    Sladow-Noob @Caliber
                    last edited by

                    @Caliber there are multiple which are not limited to the ACU, yes. Such as ASF armor so the CZar beam doesn't oneshot them.
                    But the point is that the last thing the balance team wants to do is to add yet another exception. It's non intuitive and makes the game more complex so it's the last option you wanna go with.

                    Inactive.

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                    • ZLOZ Offline
                      ZLO @Caliber
                      last edited by ZLO

                      @Caliber said in Reduce T2 Air Snipes:

                      @waffelzNoob not exlusive
                      Overcharge limited at 400 damage to ACU
                      ACU explosion limits stucture damage to 80
                      Theres probably more examples but thats all i can think of right now.

                      Just for the sake of completeness:
                      • Overcharge also does 800 dmg to buildings
                      • Shields also inherit their armor type from the building that produces the shield. So overcharge would do different damage to different shields
                      • Firebeetles deal less damage to other firebeetles
                      • Czar deals only 33% dmg to ASFs
                      • Yolonna oss used to unable to kill itself but that could have been fixed
                      • Also no unit can damage itself (with very minor exceptions)
                      • Nukes ignore shields, but not personal shields afaik
                      • What does do friendly fire and what does not is all over the place, and afaik how it works with bombers was added using armor types, but not sure

                      i think it is kinda cool that satelite is no longer indestructible and has its own HP, so it is no longer an exception

                      Edit: i think there is enough weird stuff already, don't want to add more.
                      it is kinda weird how corsairs or nothas turn from completely useless vs commanders to deadly depending on if enemy commander is dodging or not.

                      TA4Life: "At the very least we are not slaves to the UI" | http://www.youtube.com/user/dimatularus | http://www.twitch.tv/zlo_rd

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                      • waffelzNoobW Offline
                        waffelzNoob @Caliber
                        last edited by

                        @Caliber said in Reduce T2 Air Snipes:

                        Theres probably more examples but thats all i can think of right now.

                        there you go that's the problem you can't think of them all, and it'll be even harder if we introduce more

                        frick snoops!

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                        • CaliberC Offline
                          Caliber
                          last edited by Caliber

                          @waffelzNoob The reason they exist is because they improve gameplay.

                          Saying you dont want more is like saying you dont want more money because you dont want to count it.

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                          • N Offline
                            Nuggets
                            last edited by

                            I dont think its good enough reason not not do the nerf only vs acu just because there are already too many special rules. The fact is that t2 air is currently (imo) a problem regarding snipes. But you could also argue the same for t3. Maybe have the commander have a general resistance / armor against all air to ground? Still a "specical" rule but not as bad as if it only was t2

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                            • DeribusD Online
                              Deribus Global Moderator
                              last edited by

                              ACU umbrella upgrade

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                              • JipJ Offline
                                Jip
                                last edited by

                                From a different perspective: what if interceptors are easier to produce, perhaps faster (yes, strategic bomber I am on to you) and higher fuel capacity to allow them to be more capable against tech 2 units?

                                The opponent can of course do the same and make additional interceptors too.

                                A work of art is never finished, merely abandoned

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                                • CaliberC Offline
                                  Caliber
                                  last edited by

                                  I suggested the damage reduction to commanders only as I thought it was a good way of producing the desired effect with no changes to other units for minimal disruption to balance.

                                  I suggested the T2 air change as this is the most abused method, T3 requires a much larger investment and is therefore less abusable.

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                                  • FtXCommandoF Offline
                                    FtXCommando
                                    last edited by FtXCommando

                                    Special rules are terrible for the game, they should be actively pruned not added to. Problem with t2 air is that it’s balanced with the context of 1v1 where there is drastically more t1 air in existence and there is a singular ACU point of failure. Make it “properly balanced” in a 5v5 teamgame and you have ruined one of the most common ways to punish greedy misplay in 1v1 and 2v2.

                                    It’s not much different than the relation t1 spam has between bigger teamgames and 1v1/2v2.

                                    Frankly as I see it this is a meta skill issue, people just don’t wanna make t1 air in teamgames and get punished by a dude that gets to throw 10k mass in intervals around the map.

                                    If you want to accommodate it, lower t2 bomber hps by 200 hp so swift wind is now more OP and janus all in is fully removed from the game.

                                    Honestly isn’t this literally just a corsair complaint thread? It takes 12+ janus to even begin to reliably snipe an ACU and notha isn’t very different. I don’t see any gunship as problematic for ACU snipes. If corsair is the problem then make it way more reliable at shooting so it’s way easier to dodge.

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                                    • CaliberC Offline
                                      Caliber
                                      last edited by

                                      UEF is probably the only exeption to this.

                                      Gunships are probably even stronger as they cant be dodged.

                                      You say make T1 air like the other team hasnt figured they can also make T1 air.

                                      These players rush T2 air so they have it before you have T2 land to make flak, also flak takes much longer to get to the front so not usable.

                                      The only real thing you can try is spamming T1 Land AA but is not great.

                                      IndexLibrorumI 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • IndexLibrorumI Offline
                                        IndexLibrorum Global Moderator @Caliber
                                        last edited by IndexLibrorum

                                        @Caliber said in Reduce T2 Air Snipes:

                                        Gunships are probably even stronger as they cant be dodged.

                                        Gunships can't survive flak. Having a commander on the frontlines past ~minute 7 without a flak is just skill issue.

                                        "Design is an iterative process. The required number of iterations is one more than the number you have currently done. This is true at any point in time."

                                        See all my projects:

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                                        • CaliberC Offline
                                          Caliber
                                          last edited by

                                          @IndexLibrorum Read line 4 please

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                                          • D Offline
                                            Dorset @IndexLibrorum
                                            last edited by Dorset

                                            @IndexLibrorum I agree its skill issue. I like to play air a lot in 1.2k+ games meaning I am the low rank on my team and I find it so funny when higher ranks are insulting and blaming me for getting sniped or for their army getting destroyed by air meanwhile they have ZERO flak of any kind 15+ mins into the game...I swear the first t4 of every game gets sent in with no scouts or flak and gets sniped by gunships in the enemy base and they blame me for not defending it lol.

                                            I am a career 1.3k type player but that doesn't mean I cant recognize how many higher ranked players have serious skill issues over simple things lol.

                                            I personally dont think t2 air snipes are an issue. There are always those random players who do it but overall players would rather use their air advantage taking out eco. Snipes do have their place and should never be nerfed imo. If your front is being pushed hard with enemy acus then sniping one of them can sure take the pressure off even if it does hand a nice base to their higher ranked player...one problem at a time.

                                            If you get an acu drop in your base you will sure be happy that t2 air kills acus....because if t2 air is nerfed then I will probably acu drop every single game from now on...will be fun.

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