Balance Team

@ftxcommando said in Pending Balance Changes Feedback Thread:

You don't send random gunships out and about like that except in 1v1 or MAYBE some really big 2v2. You just risk dumping mass, especially since you can't cover multiple gunships around the map at once with your ints that you need to keep concentrated in any teamgame. Likewise, the speed isn't really comparable to mantis because t2 air in teamgames comes at the point of map control being closed. For you to send your gunships around to waste the time of enemy, you would need to have total air dominance in the game where you are fine with intercepting on his map half.
Maybe it's a slight buff for 1v1? It's really bad for nearly all utility cases in teamgames.

@zeldafanboy said in Pending Balance Changes Feedback Thread:

Well, there is no anti ground weapon that Mantis are fighting with comparable AOE, and you can micro Mantis to dodge with their high speed while still firing. Gunships have to hang above a target to shoot it, and they have no collision so they stack and take lots of AOE damage from the high AOE flak... the move speed just means they can run away from bad fights easier, but that doesn't matter when they suck at fighting in the first place.

For those who are curious: https://discord.com/channels/197033481883222026/476200727912644618/1154553519966265475
(discussion about Janus/Stingers/Asf lasts for a little over an hour)

@eminence said in Pending Balance Changes Feedback Thread:

It could be done by increasing laser upgrade build time or cost, although you already nerfed damage by 25%. But personally i don't see any problem with telemaser now, i'd say it will become problem when there is no counter play. It is not like faf played only fullshare, it is actually big risk to use telemazer in late game when fullshare is off. If you can rush telemaser early for cheesing your opponent- then it is your skill and opponent's mistake for not scouting or making counter to that, same as nuke rush, strat rush, notha/corsair rush, t3 arty rush.
Must i say that even with laser, teleport and t3 upgrades cybran acu very vulnerable to teledef. Unlike certain telesacu with more than 50k hp and 250 regen.

You are right that telemazer is not too strong in non full share games, but it's impossible to balance a strategy game around all different map sizes, different maps and different gameplay settings. Some sacrifices have to be made in some way or another. Labs are useless on big maps/chokepoint maps. Game enders are useless on small maps. Telemazer is maybe risky on assasination but is OP on full share.

You have to keep in mind though that one of the reasons why you think telemazer is hard to use is because it's so strong that almost everyone auto builds shields and pd as tele defense. As lategame telemazer is around 20k mass (the power you get as overflow from the air player) it isn't uncommon to see 50k mass worth of teledef around the map even if there is no tele scouted. The fact that it's hard to pull of a telesnipe with that doesn't necessarily mean it's weak in that case.

Sera tele sacu might be addressed in the sacu rework.

@zeldafanboy said in Pending Balance Changes Feedback Thread:

Well, even if you keep the price-to-cost ratio the same, the reality is that T2 gunships are going to be going up against Flak. And having more, weaker gunships is worse than having fewer, stronger gunships because of AOE. So making the Stinger cheaper and proportionally weaker is a nerf. Making the Vulthoo stronger and proportionally more expensive is a buff.

I'm not sure, maybe it being only 10% slower than any fighterbomber and thus the fastest gunships in the game while being the cheapest to make gives it some other advantages? You don't think mantis are the worst t1 tank because they have the worst stats (excluding aeon) since 'they are going up against other tanks' right?

@greensubmarine said in Pending Balance Changes Feedback Thread:

Thelemazer is already the one way ticket in many cases. If the reason of the nerf is to make it even more risky then maybe it makes sense to add cooldown, so the (s)acu could not instantly fly away. What's the point of nerfing features that spice up the gameplay anyway?
I understand that it might be very strong in full-share games, but it is optional setting after all.

The most important reason is that it adds counterplay. Right now there is very little interaction in defending against a telemazer other than queueing up lines of pd and hope it works. The max tele range allows you some chances to chase a failed tele attempt (yes they happen often enough).

Full share also isn't optional since all the matchmaker queues use full share as a standard setting.

@relentless said in Pending Balance Changes Feedback Thread:

Whats the determining factor in the teleport range? e.g Is it aimed at 10km maps?

It's hard to imagine the exact impact since it's very map dependant, but it is mostly meant as an impact for 20km maps (since it's usually a lot stronger there since there are more spread out bases and more spots with no vision)

@maudlin27 said in Pending Balance Changes Feedback Thread:

Don't get why stinger is getting nerfed when it's already bad thanks to missing lots of shots on t1 units. I could see the change if it was combined with the hitbox issue being resolved, but on it's own I find it strange.

@zeldafanboy said in Pending Balance Changes Feedback Thread:

The T2 air changes are mostly lip curling. Nerfing T2 transport speed again? Making the Stinger even weaker and more spammable so it's even worse against flak? Making the Vulthoo even denser so it's better against flak? Nerfing the Janus spamability? Making ASF even more resistant to ground AA?

The stinger "nerf" is not a nerf for the same reason as the soulripper and bulwark nerfs weren't a nerf but a buff (in different scenario's that is). I think it's quite funny that people instantly see the vulthoo change as a buff even though it technically worsens the stats / mass invested compared to the current version while the stinger more or less stays the same.

T2 transport speed has been untouched for 6 entire years. You make it sound like we're chain nerfing it. Also if you missed it t2 transports got a huge mobility buff in the last patch which makes them way more maneuverable. In combination with the fact that inties still have an incredible hard time to catch t2 transports because they are very dumb with pathfinding makes this a necessary change.

Asf keep the same hp/mass ratio which by nature means that ground aa has the same impact on asf after this change.

@zeldafanboy said in Pending Balance Changes Feedback Thread:

The T3 MAA becoming cheaper and more spammable + HP normalization is good. Flak all have the same HP, which is good, although T1 MAA have slightly different HP (And Aeon has the lowest, not Cybran). I guess air gets so much more important the longer the game goes on its only fair for every faction to have identical HP on their land AA.

There is no normalization on t3 maa. All non sera factions have very slight differences. Sera t3 maa are unique and should be put seperately in there (cause of different stats) but until gieb gives me permission to edit my own post it stays like this.

@ftxcommando said in Pending Balance Changes Feedback Thread:

I’d rather factions get diff ranges for their teleports tbh. Aeon and Sera are epic aliens, they get no range limit but they have current expensive teleport. Cyb and UEF work with Earth tech, get a range cap but slightly cheaper teleport or something.

Making tele upgrades different per faction is something i want to work to yes. It makes sense to do it to balance it out, but for now i didn't have the time yet to think about the exact details so i wanted to add the range change to beta and see what impact it has to have a better understanding what changes the factions need.

@eminence said in Pending Balance Changes Feedback Thread:

Imho if only problem is telemazer, then increase its build time or cost, only for cybran acu,

See above. Also it is not feasible to simply nerf 1 factions teleport without anything in return. The nano upgrades for different factions are of different costs but also of different strengths. We will not have the same strength teleport upgrade with different costs.

Feel free to provide any feedback here regarding the changes discussed here. Keep in mind that all of these changes are subject to change.

Since the summer has ended balance calls have started again. This means that over the next weeks/months the list of balance changes will slowly start to grow.

There is no updated FAF Beta yet so for the time being the changes will be listed here.

Please leave your feedback here. Note that the list of balance changes are NOT final.

Ps: I will finish writing the descriptions tomorrow

Changelog:

Land

T3 maa

• Mass cost 800 > 600
• Energy cost 10.000 > 7.500
• Build time 4.000 > 3.000

Non Cybran T3 maa

• HP -300 (each faction has a slight difference in hp)

Air

T2 Transports

• Movement speed 14.3 > 13.5

Janus

• Mass cost 420 > 360
• Energy cost 8.400 > 12.600
• Build time 2.400 > 2.800

Stinger

• Mass cost 240 > 192
• Energy cost 4.800 > 3.840
• Build time 1.600 > 1.280
• Movement speed 12 > 13.5
• HP 880 > 700
• DPS 66.6 > 53

Vulthoo

• Mass cost 300 > 500
• Energy cost 6.000 > 10.000
• Build time 2.000 > 3.333
• Movement speed 12 > 11
• HP 1.080 > 1.800
• DPS 80 > 100
• Mesh scale +10%

ASF

• Mass cost 350 > 450
• Energy cost 40.000 > 51.200
• Build time 3.000 > 3.840
• Hp +500 (each faction has a slight difference in hp)
• Damage 400 > 500

Buildings

T2 Air HQ

• Build time 2.000 > 2.300

T3 Air HQ

• Build time 10.400 > 12.100

(S)acu upgrades

Teleport upgrade

• Max range ∞ > 350
• increase teleport fx radius by 25%
• Move UEF acu teleport upgrade to the left arm

Telemazer is considered one of the strongest tools lategame for a relatively low price. Especially in games with full share it allows an acu to suicide while dealing a lot of damage with no downsides (aside from losing the apm of a player). These changes will add some more strategy involved when it comes to tele snipes. The added fx radius means it is more easily visible giving you some extra seconds to respond. If the teleport is cancelled or the acu tele's away in time you know the acu is still to relatively close proximity which means you have a bit of extra time to hunt down the fleeing tele acu. A slight downside to this is that it makes non telemazer teleports weaker as well, but given the overall impact of telemazer compared to these other teleports we think this is a small sacrifice to make.

In addition to this UEF acu's get their teleport upgrade moved to the left arm which allows them to both get teleport and billy (but not t3) at the same time. This means you can teleport in, shoot 1 billy, teleport out and reload with engineer assistance. Ofcourse in combination with the max tele range it is possible to hunt down the acu if you have decent map control.

@endranii said in Why would you have left FAF?:

Can you just ban him?

Ban who?

@Ze_PilOt what do u think about this bro

@jip said in 'Brigadier Fletcher' Mapping tournament:

(1) The submission must be 20x20 naval-based map and it must use the full playable area

Probably should explain a bit more what this exactly means. Would it mean that bermuda locket isnt counted as full playable area because of the dead space around the land mass (Even though it still tends to be used for raiding)? Or does it simply mean that it has to be 20x20 and not 18x18 (which would technically count as 20x20)