Reduce T2 Air Snipes
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@Caliber there are multiple which are not limited to the ACU, yes. Such as ASF armor so the CZar beam doesn't oneshot them.
But the point is that the last thing the balance team wants to do is to add yet another exception. It's non intuitive and makes the game more complex so it's the last option you wanna go with. -
@Caliber said in Reduce T2 Air Snipes:
@waffelzNoob not exlusive
Overcharge limited at 400 damage to ACU
ACU explosion limits stucture damage to 80
Theres probably more examples but thats all i can think of right now.Just for the sake of completeness:
• Overcharge also does 800 dmg to buildings
• Shields also inherit their armor type from the building that produces the shield. So overcharge would do different damage to different shields
• Firebeetles deal less damage to other firebeetles
• Czar deals only 33% dmg to ASFs
• Yolonna oss used to unable to kill itself but that could have been fixed
• Also no unit can damage itself (with very minor exceptions)
• Nukes ignore shields, but not personal shields afaik
• What does do friendly fire and what does not is all over the place, and afaik how it works with bombers was added using armor types, but not surei think it is kinda cool that satelite is no longer indestructible and has its own HP, so it is no longer an exception
Edit: i think there is enough weird stuff already, don't want to add more.
it is kinda weird how corsairs or nothas turn from completely useless vs commanders to deadly depending on if enemy commander is dodging or not. -
@Caliber said in Reduce T2 Air Snipes:
Theres probably more examples but thats all i can think of right now.
there you go that's the problem you can't think of them all, and it'll be even harder if we introduce more
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@waffelzNoob The reason they exist is because they improve gameplay.
Saying you dont want more is like saying you dont want more money because you dont want to count it.
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I dont think its good enough reason not not do the nerf only vs acu just because there are already too many special rules. The fact is that t2 air is currently (imo) a problem regarding snipes. But you could also argue the same for t3. Maybe have the commander have a general resistance / armor against all air to ground? Still a "specical" rule but not as bad as if it only was t2
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ACU umbrella upgrade
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From a different perspective: what if interceptors are easier to produce, perhaps faster (yes, strategic bomber I am on to you) and higher fuel capacity to allow them to be more capable against tech 2 units?
The opponent can of course do the same and make additional interceptors too.
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I suggested the damage reduction to commanders only as I thought it was a good way of producing the desired effect with no changes to other units for minimal disruption to balance.
I suggested the T2 air change as this is the most abused method, T3 requires a much larger investment and is therefore less abusable.
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Special rules are terrible for the game, they should be actively pruned not added to. Problem with t2 air is that it’s balanced with the context of 1v1 where there is drastically more t1 air in existence and there is a singular ACU point of failure. Make it “properly balanced” in a 5v5 teamgame and you have ruined one of the most common ways to punish greedy misplay in 1v1 and 2v2.
It’s not much different than the relation t1 spam has between bigger teamgames and 1v1/2v2.
Frankly as I see it this is a meta skill issue, people just don’t wanna make t1 air in teamgames and get punished by a dude that gets to throw 10k mass in intervals around the map.
If you want to accommodate it, lower t2 bomber hps by 200 hp so swift wind is now more OP and janus all in is fully removed from the game.
Honestly isn’t this literally just a corsair complaint thread? It takes 12+ janus to even begin to reliably snipe an ACU and notha isn’t very different. I don’t see any gunship as problematic for ACU snipes. If corsair is the problem then make it way more reliable at shooting so it’s way easier to dodge.
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UEF is probably the only exeption to this.
Gunships are probably even stronger as they cant be dodged.
You say make T1 air like the other team hasnt figured they can also make T1 air.
These players rush T2 air so they have it before you have T2 land to make flak, also flak takes much longer to get to the front so not usable.
The only real thing you can try is spamming T1 Land AA but is not great.
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@Caliber said in Reduce T2 Air Snipes:
Gunships are probably even stronger as they cant be dodged.
Gunships can't survive flak. Having a commander on the frontlines past ~minute 7 without a flak is just skill issue.
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@IndexLibrorum Read line 4 please
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@IndexLibrorum I agree its skill issue. I like to play air a lot in 1.2k+ games meaning I am the low rank on my team and I find it so funny when higher ranks are insulting and blaming me for getting sniped or for their army getting destroyed by air meanwhile they have ZERO flak of any kind 15+ mins into the game...I swear the first t4 of every game gets sent in with no scouts or flak and gets sniped by gunships in the enemy base and they blame me for not defending it lol.
I am a career 1.3k type player but that doesn't mean I cant recognize how many higher ranked players have serious skill issues over simple things lol.
I personally dont think t2 air snipes are an issue. There are always those random players who do it but overall players would rather use their air advantage taking out eco. Snipes do have their place and should never be nerfed imo. If your front is being pushed hard with enemy acus then sniping one of them can sure take the pressure off even if it does hand a nice base to their higher ranked player...one problem at a time.
If you get an acu drop in your base you will sure be happy that t2 air kills acus....because if t2 air is nerfed then I will probably acu drop every single game from now on...will be fun.
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@Dorset if your sniped within 7 mins before flak exists by a player who rushes (key word here) rushes T2 air and then deletes your ACU it isn skill issue, its just abusing Air.
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@Caliber I just think those are extremely rare cases that just have to be dealt with. If one person develops a reputation for that then they probably find it harder to get into a lobby...or they get in and people purposely rush them to teach them a lesson but its just super rare.....no different than in an actual combat scenario if you lose a major asset early you still have to fight the battle. Its not suppose to be easy.
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@Caliber what you are describing I literally cannot recall ever happening to me. Could you share some replays? Imo getting t2 air sniped is usually quite avoidable if you make air scouts and intes.
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Decapitation was added as a rated victory condition server-side and has an implementation in the game lua awaiting in this PR: https://github.com/FAForever/fa/pull/6667
It would make ACU snipes still have a place in stopping ACU usage or ending the game fully but it wouldn't put people out of games as a "cheap" win by destroying a team's apm (or give an unfair loss by giving enemy 2k bases). I hope you can host and enjoy the victory condition when it comes out.Balance-wise, my opinion is that 7 min T2 air snipe is incredibly greedy and has an unreliable outcome unless its explicitly to snipe some T1 + ACU pushing guy. It would be easily countered with a playstyle (I won't use "meta" here because imo higher level players do actually do these things, at minimum in response to scouting snipes) that has heavier emphasis on scouting, inties, raiding, and early T2 land tech.
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How is UEF the exception? Janus are easier to ACU snipe with than notha, I’ve quite literally survived against a 75 notha snipe that did try to take advantage of groundfire.
If you’re dying to gunships that’s a personal issue, you need like 3x the mass in gunships once there are 3 flak near an ACU and they cant quickly snipe flak the way bombers could get away with before retreating out. The exception being Aeon gunship.
By the time there is 4-5 t2 bombers, you absolutely should have had flak near your ACU. I don’t know what games you’re playing but a normal t2 land timing in a teamgame is like min 6 or 7 and if you wanted to hard rush t2 air the earliest you’ll manage it is min 5 and you need to make a t2 pgen on top of that.
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@Caliber said in Reduce T2 Air Snipes:
@Dorset if your sniped within 7 mins before flak exists by a player who rushes (key word here) rushes T2 air and then deletes your ACU it isn skill issue, its just abusing Air.
and? your team loses an acu and potentially the army surrounding it. however whoever rushed corsairs is now way behind their mirror in eco or whatever that player made. that player's role is now to punish the sniper. it is not necessarily a skill issue if you get sniped, sometimes it's not preventable. however, not punishing a snipe rush is a skill issue indeed, be it yours or your teammate's
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@waffelzNoob Its not about winning or losing, its about did you enjoy playing.
This sort of behaviour has led to me thinking f**k FAF ile go do something else, how many people have thought this and just stopped playing?
