The Problems With The UEF - Part 8 (The Fatboy)
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@ftxcommando said in THE PROBLEMS WITH THE UEF - Part 8 (The Fatboy):
I still don't understand why people think Fatboy is bad. I've had games the last week where I've had several fatties hit anywhere between 50-200k mass killed. All it required me to do is make a few t3 engies to spam t2 shields and have percies/maa (which I already had since the fatty is a natural continuation of a percy push rather than the initiation of a push) supporting it.
These pushes went into billy ACUs, went into t2 arty, went into TML. I did end up losing some fatties to like 4 czars tho
Once the fatty percy push breaks through the first line of defense which often has the most mass invested into defense, there is essentially 0 that stops the snowball except air. And with proper air defenses, there is going to be 0 besides air t4s.
Thanks for sharing that, looking forward to a replay, if you don't mind.
But, the Fatboy isn't "bad". As I stated, it just requires a lot going for it, otherwise, it is useless. For other Experimentals, that's not such a big issue because of the larger HP pool, and/or damage they can deal. Being a direct fire Exp, also plays a huge role in this.
A GC is meant to spearhead a push - to be the tank;
A Monkeylord is meant to catch you by surprise - high damage and stealth;
An Ythotha is meant to be destructive, and to clear a path;
A Megalith, all in one! Tank, long-range, high damage, and a factory.But a Fatboy? Its main role is to weaken bases, and armies, right? But it doesn't even do that effectively - not saying it should be able to take care of them with ease, either, - but it doesn't get the chance to due to all the risks it needs to counter.
The secondary role is to be a Mobile Factory, yet this is rarely used, too. And its close-range defenses, may as well remove them.
But when it does get those perfect instances, it does rule! Hence why the kiting is so effective. But if it doesn't, then it'll end up like the ones you mentioned, dead to Czars.
~ Stryker
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I'd like to see it have a resource discount to the units it can produce.
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It literally does do that effectively.
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Fatties are quite balanced i'd say, yes you can't push since it's not a siege weapon, but it does it's job extremely well when defending a base/reclaim field, ofc you need to babysit it and since shields get spalshdamage, parashield are irrelevant when protecting a fatty, it really goes down to fatty being a supportive unit and the main army being the "main" unit which is not the case for any other faction.
arty protection will probably be beyond broken and getting 3 stacked fatties is pretty much gameover for any defender since it will have 0 counters besides air/nukes.
need to keep in mind that fatties are getting value over time, it's not designed to get 20k mass killed in the first 2 mins of hitting stuff.
does it need a buff? maybe
is it really needed? noqueuing with a newbie to show him the beauty of tmm and meeting tagada be like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLcRpdZ0Xb0&ab_channel=Tomoko -
@ftxcommando
Damn really? every time I use it I'm like 'woah awesome build power' but its consuming 45 mass per sec to build some mobile aa. Ok I never did the maths but it always felt like you got the build power but no discount.Felt like if it consumed a somewhat similar amount to a normal factory then people would have good reason to leverage its factory capability on the front line.
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@relentless said in THE PROBLEMS WITH THE UEF - Part 8 (The Fatboy):
I'd like to see it have a resource discount to the units it can produce.
I could've sworn that in the original game, the ACU had something similar to this.
~ Stryker
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@relentless He wasn't responding to you
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ah ok, you can see how it'd seem like it
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@rezy-noob said in THE PROBLEMS WITH THE UEF - Part 8 (The Fatboy):
Fatties are quite balanced i'd say, yes you can't push since it's not a siege weapon, but it does it's job extremely well when defending a base/reclaim field, ofc you need to babysit it and since shields get spalshdamage, parashield are irrelevant when protecting a fatty, it really goes down to fatty being a supportive unit and the main army being the "main" unit which is not the case for any other faction.
The Fatboy is perfect for long-range engagements - it's basically a T4 sniper bot. Yes, it's a supportive unit, and it can have a huge impact on a game, but its not very good at anything else, whereas all the other Exps can have multiple roles, so to say.
arty protection will probably be beyond broken
T3 MAA was a controversial idea when it was added into the game. But, it was adjusted over time. The same can be done here. It doesn't have to be a one-time change - it can be adjusted over time and even before it is released, too.
getting 3 stacked fatties is pretty much gameover for any defender since it will have 0 counters besides air/nukes.
Critical mass in units usually works. If your opponent manages to get 3 experimentals, well... Game might be over, by then.
Arguably, the same thing can go for any other Experimental, 3 Ythothas, 3 Megaliths, 3 GCs - air and nukes are a counter to all of these, too. Yet these have more of a chance to deal damage as these units are tankier and are direct fire.
need to keep in mind that fatties are getting value over time, it's not designed to get 20k mass killed in the first 2 mins of hitting stuff.
How does this help the unit? It's already daunting that it isn't a direct fire Exp.
Sure, it's not designed to be direct, as you said, and that isn't a problem, but it doesn't help its case, either.does it need a buff? maybe
is it really needed? noWell... there are definitely issues or stats that should be addressed and/or updated.
~ Stryker
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Fatboys scale way better in large quantities than chickens or gcs.
What role does a GC have besides walking into units and bases exactly?
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The Fatboy is the only true experimental. Clearly the designers had no idea what they were doing and just threw a bunch of shit together, hence experimental. All the others are fakes. Change my mind.
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In the campaign when you run into a monkeylord they say what is that thing? See it's experimental because the uef didn't even know about it.
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Fatboy really needs some love. 4 T2 arty should not be a valid counter to an experimental.
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100% agree that the Fattie needs a buff, I'd say just up the HP by 5k or so, maybe up the speed just barely a touch, and it'd be good, but these are definitely interesting suggestions.
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My good friends did you know the relative difference between a GC and a fatty in speed is about equivalent to the difference in speed between a titan and a sniper?
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I am very intrigued by @Jip's suggestion to incorporate an Anti-Artillery system.
I would really like to see a new, unique mechanic be implemented into the game.
~ Stryker
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IMO The fatty just needs better AA like flak, as at the min it just gets owned by t1 and t2 bombers, i never understood why the developers gave some units AA but made it so week it might as well not be there.
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I doubt that flak helps a lot if the fatty just gets sniped by 15 nothas. Spread them out a bit, then target the fatty. 1-2 might die, the rest gets through
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who cares that fatty is weak to air and arty, how about emphasizing its strengths instead of just turning it into another facetank t4 variant
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@ftxcommando said in The Problems With The UEF - Part 8 (The Fatboy):
how about emphasizing its strengths
Its main -and only- advantage lies in its range.
So... are you suggesting expanding its range?If that's the case, I would concur that an extended range could assist in dealing with certain counters by allowing it to fire a second or two sooner.
However, I get the feeling, that even with an increased range, it will still fall short in terms of overall effectiveness.
Its deficiency does not solely lie in range, but rather in its survivability.
As previously mentioned, the suggestion made by @Jip to incorporate a new Anti-Artillery system could potentially provide the necessary boost to enhance its survivability - even if it's just a tad bit.
~ Stryker
