Personal/Custom Avatars
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This is a sentence, yes. Now read it in the context of
“then there needs to be rules ironed out about how much money equates to an avatar and whether only FAF official prize money is capable of being spent on said good”
Avatars being a prize substitute equates to avatars being bought with money. You’re just deciding what money is allowed to be considered. The Board and tournament team already took the plunge into making it viable to buy personal avatars with this policy, this is about the details.
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Avatars being a prize substitute equates to avatars being bought with money.
making it viable to buy personal avatars with this policyThis is exactly what I'm saying is a leap of logic beyond the reasonable.
No avatars were sold. No avatars were bought. No one has even hinted at the posibility of buying avatars with money. One thing replacing another does not equate being able to buy that one thing with the other. -
They were bought as Pepsi was compensated for the loss of his prize money through the avatar. For this to be reasonable, rules need to exist on what an avatar is worth, because if it’s worth any amount then any russian getting 16th place in LotS could potentially get a unique avatar. If it’s too high, only 1 russian a year is going to be getting one, if that.
Avatars are given a market value for fair compensation, it’s a price. It’s a price that can be paid. It’s a question of what the market structure is.
And frankly, I think it’s pretty ridiculous and inane to only apply to Russians in a situation outside of their control. It’s not fair to either them nor everybody else. The rule should be uniform if this is seen as legitimate enough to be a solution to this issue.
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@ftxcommando You're stretching the meaning of the word 'bought' to mean things that it doesn't. You can stretch your logic in whatever shape of argument you want, but fact remains that avatars cannot be bought, and that offering them as a replacement for a financial prize does not mean that they suddenly can.
The above notwithstanding: as you say, guidelines need to be established for the avatars and when someone should get one. I'm sure those kind of decisions would have been made properly, if it wasn't for the weird situation that resulted in (what I understand to be) one NOC handing out an avatar without further really discussing it.
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No I’m not. You don’t understand what a substitute good is and that for it to work, it still requires a price. If money is the substitute good, it’s bought. That’s what it is. Are you describing the avatar Pepsi got as a gift unrelated to the prize money? If not, the two are obviously related, nobody is even denying it.
If avatars can’t be bought, the situation above is arbitrary and shouldn’t have happened. Because it’s really just NOC deciding based on his personal vibes that day what is worth a personal avatar. Coherent principles aka a price needs to be established for transparency and fairness. You can argue about who is allowed to buy it or what money is allowed to be used, but it’s still a good with a price.
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Then you will forgive me for the fact that 95% of other gaming communities continue to pay Russians even large gaming corporations continue to pay Russians despite sanctions (especially those in Europe) and yet here we are.
Ras Boi's save lives.
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Because heaven forbid if they paid Turbo2 Pepsi's winnings he "could" find a way to send them to Pepsi.
What have FAForever to do with financial actions of person they paid? This is not FAForever money any more so the Turbo2 can do whatever he want with them
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It would not be hard to establish the causal link that makes FAF complicit in that. The better question is why anybody would care about it to go through the motions of getting it proven in court.
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@noc said in Personal/Custom Avatars:
Then you will forgive me for the fact that 95% of other gaming communities continue to pay Russians even large gaming corporations continue to pay Russians despite sanctions (especially those in Europe) and yet here we are.
Source?
A quick look says the opposite with major companies no longer providing prize winnings to Russian residing players.Eg:
https://www.fortnite.com/competitive/news/fortnite-competitive-update-russia
All the major esports leagues I researched have banned Russian teams from competing and cancelled any events held in Russia.
The closest we get is Team Spirit which was Russian but is now Serbian based.
This is all ignoring the fact that transferring funds to a Russian bank from our Danish one is nearly impossible due to EU's SWIFT ban on Russian banks. Are we forgetting the pain we had (have?) with not being able to access our account in the past? Do we want a repeat of that happening? Even if its only a small chance of happening its not worth risking.
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@ftxcommando said in Personal/Custom Avatars:
the situation above is arbitrary and shouldn’t have happened. Because it’s really just NOC deciding based on his personal vibes that day what is worth a personal avatar.
That's a pretty good description of what happened.
There is a thread in the promo-public channel on discord now that discusses avatar rules. All input is welcome.
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Given there's someone clearly motivated to seeing FAF fail presumably at cost to themselves (the ongoing DDOS attacks), I don't believe the proposition that that FAF could get away with breaching the law because no-one will care.
M27AI and M28AI developer; Devlogs and more general AI development guide:
https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v71-devlog
https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v150 -
@maudlin27 Explain how is it a breach of law? Any law that states that you can't send money to turbo2? This is the presumption of guilty not of the innocence
"Good luck and a safe landing commanders!"
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I’m not saying FAF should work to breach the law, my solution was still to reserve the funds while providing in kind services as options for people that don’t feel like waiting.
Though I also feel like the “waiting” isn’t really a necessary condition and the transfer of FAF money for a service should be viable for anyone that wins FAF money.
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@lunyshko It's been made clear in previous iterations of this discussion that several people were intending to forward the money to Russian members who otherwise would not be able to receive prize money.
You can argue that such actions fall beyond what the board should be concerned about, but the worry remains that FAF remained possibly liable for such actions nonetheless. Legal advise was sought, but no definitive answer obtained. As such, the board has chosen to err on the side of caution, as it is most important to not jeopardize the FAF project, even if this meant that a handful of Russian players were unable to receive any financial prizes. I'm sure you'll be able to understand that the (perceived) risk involved here does not outweigh the rewards (pun not intended).
This sucks for those players and it's not their fault, but such are the consequences of living in a warmongering state.
Again, all of this has previously been discussed to death, and the conclusions that were reached by the board are unlikely to change. It's time to stop this discussion, if only so that we can return to the issue at hand:
We were discussing on how to deal with avatars, both in the global sense of needing proper guidelines to handle future assignments, as well as the specific sense of how to deal with the custom avatar given out by NOC as a replacement for the tournament prize.
There are efforts made to work out a good set of guidelines, mostly based on the earlier framework by FTX and some current revisions by Fichom. Further input on this is very welcome, please see the relevant discord channel.
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Yes, lets risk the entire FAF project for a few measly bucks. Great idea lads.
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@blackyps said in Personal/Custom Avatars:
@ftxcommando said in Personal/Custom Avatars:
the situation above is arbitrary and shouldn’t have happened. Because it’s really just NOC deciding based on his personal vibes that day what is worth a personal avatar.
That's a pretty good description of what happened.
There is a thread in the promo-public channel on discord now that discusses avatar rules. All input is welcome.
I don’t think so. I put equivalent if not more fault on the Board for making a terrible ruling to save themselves a little bit of duress which in turn put NOC in a totally losing situation where he tried to give some sort of compensation. Only problem on NOC’s end was not working out the details.
Little bit of a false dichotomy going on with this “net good vs net evil” when the whole situation exists because a ledger of reserved, illiquid funds is too much work for those few players. It’s really more like the needs of those few players isn’t worth a single hour a week of time of like 1 of 7 different Board members, which is a big deal for NOC’s position.
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The total unpaid tournament winnings are $150 to ZLO, $75 to Espi and Lunyshko, $30 to Robogear? Or who else did not get money?
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malding so hard rn, i want pixels next to my name too
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With the help of Spikey I have compiled a table of all 201 current avatars. The categories are my personal best guess and aren't meant to be taken as fact, since they aren't formally categorized in any way.
Post cut in half because of character limit
Tournament Contributor Personal Other 1 TMM Gold Champion 1 
FAF Donator 
Looking Down 
ACU sniper 
2 TMM Gold Champion 2 
Moderator 
Pizza ! 
Seraphim 
3 TMM Silver Champion 1 
I'm a FAF caster 
Sin.. 
Cybran 
4 TMM Silver Champion 2 
Mod Author 
Grrrrr ! 
Aeon 
5 IMBA Cup Champion 
Map Author 
Voodoo personal avatar 
UEF 
6 IMBA Cup Finalist 
Tournament Director 
Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Unive 
Brackman 
7 King of Open Palms 
Galactic War Donator 
The Boot 
Cool Princess 
8 Prince Of Open Palms 
Personal Trainer 
Masters Of The Universe 
Liberate ! 
9 Tournament winner 
Theme Creator 
I'm watching you! 
Cleanse ! 
10 King of Seraphim 
FAF Wiki Editor 
The Voice of Reason 
Unite ! 
11 Blitz Champion 
I'm a FAF streamer 
Fluffy Tails 
Destroy ! 
12 2vs2 Tournament Champion 
Stack Wizard 
speed2's avatar 
Strategic Genius 
13 King of UEF 
Trainer Team Lead 
LTT 
Son of Shagrat 
14 Tournament Champion 
Balance Team Lead 
Phoenix 
President Riley 
15 King of Cybran 
Game Team Lead 
Espiranto Personal Compensation 
Cool Seth-Iavow 
16 LABwars Champion 
Creative Team Lead 
Cool Brackman 
17 King of Setons Clutch 
Moderation Team Lead 
Cool Clarke 
18 Tournament Participant 
Community Manager 
Son of Shagrat xmas 
19 Winner of Hearts 
Promotions Team Lead 
Happy Holidays ! 
20 King of Aeon 
DevOps Team Lead 
Princess Rhianne Burke 
21 Nomads Tournament Champion 
Game Code Tester 
Core for ever! 
22 Clan War Challenger 
FAF Moderator 
Cool Riley 
23 Clan War Champion 
FAF Developer 
Dostya 
24 The Galaxy Cup Champion 
ICE Tester 
Rhiza 
25 2V2 WWPC U3400 Champion 
M like moderator 
Zan-Aishahesh 
26 Prime Commander Finalist 
FAF Discord Administrator 
Seth-Iavow 
27 Survival Champion 
Grand Sculptor 
Ladder Warrior 
28 Average Joes Champion 
Tournament Donator 
Kael 
29 Prince of Aeon 
Patreon Donator 
Ultimate Assimilator 
30 Prince of Cybran 
Content Creator 
I'm a special snowflake! 
31 Holy Trinity Winner 
Patreon T3 
I'm special 
32 Prince of Seraphim 
Patreon T4 
Nomads 
33 Eco Emperor 
Campaign Team Lead 
Vendetta 
34 3v3 Spring Champion 
Moderator (2023) 
Galactic Conqueror 
35 Minons and Legends winner 
Moderator (2023) red 
Puppetmaster 
36 2v2 Fixed In Equilibrium 
FAF Live Team 
Nomads 
37 3v3 Summer Champion 
BalanceTeam 
ARM 
38 3v3 Trident Of Power 
CreativeTeam 
CORE 
39 LotS Qualifier Champion 
GameDevTeam 
Ladder Knight 
40 Heart of Black Champion 
DevOpsTeam 
Warrior of TMM 
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Tournament Contributor Personal Other 41 King of Astrocrater 
CampaignTeam 
Veteran of TMM 
42 Rebalance Tournament Champion 
MatchmakingTeam 
King of TMM 
43 2v2 Masters Cup 
TournamentTeam 
Clairvoyant 
44 Bronze Musketeer 
ModerationTeam 
King of Silver 
45 Silver Musketeer 
PromoTeam 
King of Gold 
46 Golden Musketeer 
TrainerTeam 
King of Diamond 
47 FAF 2019 Champion 
Ladder Autumn Gold 
48 Coffin Tourney Champion 
Ladder Autumn Grandmaster 
49 Summer Invitational Champion 
Ladder Autumn Master 
50 Summer Invitational Finalist 
Ladder Summer Grandmaster 
51 Summer Invitational Qualifier Champion 
Ladder Summer Master 
52 King of Dual Gap 
Ladder Summer Diamond 
53 Nomads Winner 
Ladder Summer Gold 
54 Fall Invitational Qualifier Winner 
CaveDog 
55 Fall Invitational Champion 
Veteran FAFer 
56 MapGen Tourney Winner 
PrinceOfTMM 
57 Rainbow Cup III Champion 
Nightmare 
58 The Darkest Heart 
59 Spring Invitational Qualifier Champion 
60 Spring Invitational Champion 
61 Computer Cup Champion 
62 FAF Champion 2021 
63 2nd Place Legend of the Stars 2021 
64 3rd Place Legend of the Stars 2021 
65 4th Place Legend of the Stars 2021 
66 RC IV Champion 
67 Seton's champion 
68 Seton's fighter 
69 cringe tournament winner 
70 Mario Brother 
71 Luigi Brother 
72 Cringe Tournament III Champion 
73 Rainbow Cup V Champion 
74 FAF World Champion 2022 
75 2nd Place Legend of the Stars 2022 
76 3rd Place Legend of the Stars 2022 
77 4th Place Legend of the Stars 2022 
78 Rainbow Cup VI Champion 
79 FAFbetaTourney 
80 LOTS 2023 1st 
81 LOTS 2023 2nd 
82 LOTS 2023 3rd 
83 LOTS 2023 4th 
Of these 201 avatars there are 35 which are currently not assigned to anybody.
