Telemazer - time for change?
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Telemazor is OP because full share gives it near zero risk and late game the e cost is inconsequential. You are mandated to put 15 t2 pd around grid/smd/acu/game enders per player and can only cut that cost down by placing these things all right on top of each other.
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@ftxcommando I agree on this, in full share u can easily kill the air grid since it is very difficult and expensive to cover air grid with anti tele, as acu has enormous dps it will manage to deliver enourmous damage to air grid and their units will live on. Like u can send one cybran acu and will win air with high probability
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@indexlibrorum said in Telemazer - time for change?:
@gabitii How about you learn to scout, instead? The upgrade is time consuming and
very power expensive, so you'll have plenty of time to see people preparing. Add to that the fact that its a high-risk-high-reward strategy and you'll understand why you don't see the strategy used as often as you seem to imply."just scout bro" - 1300
it is not high risk, because the base is transferred to teammates. it is even lower risk on large maps, because large maps = more targets = higher odds something is undefended, lower odds of being spotted as you are teleporting, and delayed response because air units need to travel furtherand as said before, it is very easy to kill the air grid, of which the damage is not quantifiable by just mass killed in pgens/air factories, but also the amount of time, attention, and apm required to rebuild the airgrid. and for this entire duration, youl'l have no/decreased air production. what do the enemies lose? an acu, and a minute of upgrading.
@thecodemander said in Telemazer - time for change?:
You need at least 4 T3 PGens, though 6-8 is probably more where youre at to make it feasible so thats another 20k mass
this is such terrible logic. what kind of player doesn't have a ton of t3 pgens lategame to begin with? when getting tele, you pause everything but tele, meaning all of the pgens you already had at that point already exist and do not need to be accounted for when calculating tele costs.
@thecodemander said in Telemazer - time for change?:
And Im still not counting the scouting of a tele target
like you wouldn't just have scouted already, because scouting is good, lol
@thecodemander said in Telemazer - time for change?:
So just to be clear youre complaining that something which takes an air grid of power
it does not, because it is a one-time upgrade. it can be done on less t3 pgens, which, again, are structures everyone has in the lategame.
Your comparison to a monkeylord makes no sense because a monkeylord does not have the ability to teleport. Losing one player worth of APM is not a big deal at all, especially in higher rated games.
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Losing apm isn’t a big deal at the super late game when bases are all well developed because everything gets concentrated into a game ender of some sort anyway. There is no marginal benefits from having resources managed better as you incrementally increase eco, you just turn the ras boy factory back on or select the 10 t3 engies building mass fabs again.
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The mass cost may be reasonable but the power cost hurts. As someone who telemazers often, building that energy and waiting for the upgrade is a massive opportunity cost.
Also, by it's very nature it is very high risk. High reward yes, but it's never very safe and often very challenging to get full understanding of enemy base layouts. You cannot always get spy planes over the enemy base and maybe you have no aeon eye.
Countering it is childsplay. If you are in a team game with a cybran player who is not going to be in the front then you must realise the longer the game goes then the more likely it is. So you stand your acu in water or beside your smd which will be ringed with t1 pd as standard. An smd with pd is an open invitation to telemazer it then nuke the base.
Essentially, telemazer is like nuke. You must build an smd and you must make a teledefense.
Often telemazer is a desperate last resort. It's not overpowered but just one of wide number of ways to invest mass into an acu killing opportunity.
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Smd can cover a huge area, pd and shields can not. You'll need pd and shields everywhere. Play a large map with a decentralized base and you'll realize countering it is not child's play. What is child's play is clicking tele + laser upgrade and teleporting into enemy base lol
And again, no it is not high risk because your base will be transferred to a teammate.
Although seeing the 15 second teleporting was a mistake and that it's being reverted to 25 seconds is good. Based on that i dont think any more needs to be done
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If someone had 20k mass and energy to spare a telemazer, wouldn't putting that mass into your own air grid be a strictly better and 100% risk-free way of winning air on Setons? I don't see how it's OP based on killing the air grid alone given that opportunity cost.
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telemazer is way more risk free than a mass advantage in t3 air. Even if your opponent invested a similar amount of mass as the tele cost in anti tele stuff you're still more likely to do good damage than being ahead that bit of mass in air lategame
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Telemazer + range is comically busted with a 15 second teleport time, you can literally chain teleports to random groups of mexes at that point if the map is 20km. I’m gonna be sad when this bug gets patched
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Bust a bunch of mexes and get some vet then go after the air grid lol sounds fun
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@waffelznoob I don't think you could've missed my point harder. Well done.
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@thecodemander said in Telemazer - time for change?:
If tele gets nerfed, then I'm going to need the spider adjusted to cost about half as much
I don't think you could've missed my point harder. Well done.
I don't like your tone
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@thecodemander please do enlighten me, what did i miss?
arma473 said in Telemazer - time for change?:
I don't think you could've missed my point harder. Well done.
I don't like your tone
right? first he talks a bunch of nonsense, i call him out on it, and then he starts acting all pompous that i missed his point
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@arma473 said in Telemazer - time for change?:
@thecodemander said in Telemazer - time for change?:
If tele gets nerfed, then I'm going to need the spider adjusted to cost about half as much
I don't think you could've missed my point harder. Well done.
I don't like your tone
Cope harder I guess?
@waffelzNoob you disagree that it costs multiple T3 Pgens to make tele? Dont know what to tell you. If you have enough extra power to rush tele and continue making air while doing so at full tilt then youve objectively paid more in PGens.
Your entire position is "I have lots of things, I could too easily make tele" which costs a lot more than the counter for tele which is using eyes to scout.
You then state in your reply that everyone pauses air while making tele which is just countering your own argument.
Then you say that scouting is ez, so why dont people do it? But then you also base your argument on "people cant scout, see the tele and build teledef" when they have enough mass "to just tele".
If you think tele is OP and that its so cheap, then I dont know what to tell you because tele buys you a lot of shields/PD.
If its so late in the game that you have so much stuff to defend and havent won the game that sounds more like a skill issue than a need to rebalance something which often results in the tele person dying in vain as a last resort.
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I love when random people on the forums say skill issue to people 10x better than them. My favorite is still someone saying skill issue to Blodir, but this is a nice second for now.
@thecodemander said in Telemazer - time for change?:
@waffelzNoob you disagree that it costs multiple T3 Pgens to make tele? Dont know what to tell you. If you have enough extra power to rush tele and continue making air while doing so at full tilt then youve objectively paid more in PGens.
Your entire position is "I have lots of things, I could too easily make tele" which costs a lot more than the counter for tele which is using eyes to scout.
You then state in your reply that everyone pauses air while making tele which is just countering your own argument.
Late game team games on maps that aren't gap can actually be fairly hard/expensive to defend against tele. It's often pretty easy to pause stuff for 30s or whatever to make tele and then do more damage to the enemy team than the lost 30s of production cost you.
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@exselsior Literally got out of a game where there was like 40 teles and it was the most fun I've had on faf in weeks, all made possible by fast tele.
Late game team games on maps that aren't gap can actually be fairly hard/expensive to defend against tele.
God forbid there might stategies in this game that are effective at doing damage.
It's often pretty easy to pause stuff for 30s or whatever to make tele and then do more damage to the enemy team than the lost 30s of production cost you.
Its not like anyone will notice you having 50+ less ASF. Its not like amy airfight ever has been won or lost by a difference of 50 ASF and its not like any game has ever been won with air.
If a desperate enemy makes tele and you still cant win air from them when they sink 50+ ASF of E into teleing things that dont matter to you, then that is actually a skill issue.
I have yet to see any of you address my original point: if you have so much of the map that you cant defend all of it from tele, and the enemy can only tele fringe mexes then why haven't you won the game already? Its implicit in that argument you have so much more of the map and mass than the enemy so you should already have won. Which sounds an awful lot like a skill issue.
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4 core bases require 10 pd each = 40 t2 pd, say there is an smd/arty base somewhere else for another 10 needed t2 pd, that's 27,000 mass in protection.
That's enough mass to build the pgens to finish teleport in a little bit over a minute without harming your team's net spent eco.
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@thecodemander I don't know what to tell you, I have yet to see you address any of the points being made. Literally, your entire position is that telemazor is fun and everyone who disagrees with you has an actual skill issue. I'm going to need you to understand that objectively the cost of tele defense is mass-equivalent to the cost of a late-game teleport upgrade.
God forbid someone might ask you to change your tone. You then stated in your reply that I should cope harder I guess. Maybe nobody told you this, but condescending to people will never not be cringe. So, just to be clear, I'm literally done. I'm going back to Reddit.
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Find me someone that can scout and keep an eye on every enemy ACU all game with enough detail to know when/if they're upgrading and what upgrade they're going for without severely screwing their own APM and I'll show you an AI.
