Tactic for Dual Gap with 100% win rate (for 1-3 players)

5

I want to share a tactic which I invented and developed a while ago. I am not sure that it is absolutely new idea, but I didn't meet it in the game or from YouTubers.

  • This tactics require cooperation of 2 players. Air and Naval. But single Air player works too. However 2 or even 3 player makes it even more reliable.

  • This tactic tested in 19 games in row, every game ended as victory.

  • Average game duration 11-13 minutes.

  • Average rating is 600-1000, but it should work for higher ranks too because on replays which I saw, build orders of high-ranked players still vulnerable for this tactic.

Description:

Air player on Seraphim should build T2 Fighter\Bombers using only T1 MEX, while Naval player on Cybran should build T2 Destroyers and Cruisers using only T1 MEX.

In result, 8 T2 bombers will be at enemy base at 8:30.
Bombers should be grouped by 2 planes in group. Each group should do ground fire between two enemy T1 or T2 MEX, so 2 bombers will destroy 2 T2 MEX.

In result, enemy player will loose all of its MEX-es in seconds and he will require 5 minutes to rebuild it back.

This bombers run should be repeated several times for each enemy player.

Also, at time 8:30, allied Destroyer will be near enemy base for artillery bombardment from a sea.
Minute later, allied Cruiser also will be on the river and will provide Anti Air support against enemy interceptors which will be built in order to try to fight against T2 Bombers.

If enemy team will build T2 AA, those AA turrets usually will be built in line or tight group and can be destroyed with 3 T2 Bombers.

Shields may provide more protection, but soon, amount of bombers will reach 20-30, which can penetrate single shield and destroy AA turrets under it.

Also this tactics acts as a protection against most rush tactics from an enemy team. Tactics such as ACU drop or any other drop became inefficient because T2 bombers will destroy it before it will be able to do something.

If someone build strong anti-air defense, bombers just may pick another target and return to it later, while Destroyers will attack this heavy protected bases from the sea.

I suppose, the best protection against this will be achieved if 1 or 2 air players will build a lot of T1 fighters using T1 MEX-es in case if their scout will detect that air players does not upgrades its MEX-es to T2. Also 1-2 shields and 3-4 T2 AA on the base. But I not sure, because we didn't meet a enemy team who did that.

More theory:

Core idea is that T1 MEX repay its investment for only 18 seconds, while T2 MEX requires 225 seconds (3:45). And most players (except 2 front players) on Dual Gap usually prefer to max economy, in result, they are very vulnerable for attack of army which was build on T1 MEX-es.
Building of army on T1 MEX it is a proper way to play Supreme Commander. T2 MEX is required if enemy does the same and balance of forces is similar. Plus you may get additional mass using reclaim during battles.

Additionally, these pairs of MEX-es is a very vulnerable targets for 2 bombers. Furthermore, you can attach air factory to 2 MEX-es in order to get 15% mass discount for your bombers. With additional mass from the rocks and forest, amount of T2 bombers will reach a huge numbers very soon, and even if you made a mistake with coordination of air strikes, lost planes will be quickly replaced with the new one.

Replays:

Here is a list of all replays if you want to check a build order and try it by yourself. You will like it if you like concept of aviation and bombers in the games.

Number on the left means chronological order.
Note, from replay number 10 and above, there is used an improved build order based on connection to 2 MEX-es, so I recommend you to use build order from these replays.

If you don't want to watch all the replays, I recommend this one
https://replay.faforever.com/16122299
And also this one where my friend plays solo and makes significant impact on the battlefield
https://replay.faforever.com/16152894

--- 3 players (2 Air + Naval)
18 https://replay.faforever.com/16148578
17 https://replay.faforever.com/16147295
16 https://replay.faforever.com/16146820
15 https://replay.faforever.com/16146618
14 https://replay.faforever.com/16146375
13 https://replay.faforever.com/16138627
12 https://replay.faforever.com/16129816
11 https://replay.faforever.com/16129588
10 https://replay.faforever.com/16129346
9 https://replay.faforever.com/16127185

--- 2 players (Air + Naval)
8 https://replay.faforever.com/16123356
7 https://replay.faforever.com/16122426
6 https://replay.faforever.com/16122299
5 https://replay.faforever.com/16122101
4 https://replay.faforever.com/16121920
3 https://replay.faforever.com/16116155
2 https://replay.faforever.com/16115970

--- 1 player (Air only)
1 https://replay.faforever.com/16109521
New game of my friend againts two 1200 in enemy team
19 https://replay.faforever.com/16152894

4

You guys are heroes
Break the meta
Say no to t3 arty 😃

0

You ever think of playing not gap?

3

@veteranashe said in Tactic for Dual Gap with 100% win rate (for 1-3 players):

You ever think of playing not gap?

If you're too cool for this thread, why are you posting in it?

1

@veteranashe Seton's was my favorite map, and some time ago I developed a tactics which allowed to achieve 8 win streak on Seton's. I like to develop tactics, yes : )
If it will be interesting for people, I will make a post about Seton's too. But this is quite similar to this, with some modifications related to islands.
Actually on Seton's it works even better due large distance between bases, so allied forces can't help quickly when coordinated attack is started. I didn't excepted that it will work on Dual Gap where distance between bases so short, but it works. At least on low-mid ranks, Don't know yet how it will work with 1500+.

Dual Gap I always found too boring due its bias towards game-enders and long turtle game-play. Still better than Astro Craters anyway : ) Don't get me wrong, battles on these maps always large and epic. Just seems too straightforward sometimes.

But I noticed that Dual Gap is very popular, seems like even more popular than Seton's, so I decided to try to develop something unusual for it. Also it was interesting to answer a question "Is there a tactics which allows solo player make a significant impact in 6x6 game".

0

I like it and should spice things up, however it is like with the early nuke rush and any other rush tactic - If the enemy is not brain-dead he will send a scout early, will see what you are going to do and tries to counter it.

1

@zokora I thought about that, but seems like this is not correct.
For Nuke-rush, yes. If you scouted that, just go in and destroy the silo.

But for this tactic, even if enemy scouted it and know what we are going to do, they should perform quite a complex sequence of actions.

  1. All 6 players should build shields and T2 AA Turrets. If only some players will build shield, bombers just will attack other players, who didn't built shield.
    Furthermore, amount of shields and turrets should be "enough". 1 shield + 2 AA turret will not be enough to protect the base against 16 bombers.

  2. One, or even two air players should start to build T1 interceptors in large quantities, probably without upgrade MEX to T2, because 20 T1 interceptors will not be able to stop bombers run, because T2 planes also quite a string air-to-air fighters.

  3. Even if all players have shields and AA turrets + bunch of T1 interceptors. Bombers may attack enemy fleet and shipyards, that will open a gate for allied navy which will enter a river and will be able to destroy shields and shot down enemy T1 planes.

Of course this tactics can be countered, it just seems too complex to perform, because coordination of 2 players should be countered with coordination of 2 other players.

3

If your opponent plays reactively and scouts an early t2 seraphim air factory then the only response is to spam interceptors. I don't think this particular tactic will work on games with higher rated players - Notha's are still very brutal on Dual Gap 🙂 .

A work of art is never finished, merely abandoned

0

Just make Janus instead of Nothas, will become a way better strat. Also as players already mentioned, this only works if the enemy players can't scout or adapt and will instead just follow their own plan/BO no matter what their enemy does.

0

@tagada

Just make Janus instead of Nothas, will become a way better strat

Visually I like Janus much more than Notha, also it have cool transformer wings, but unfortunately Janus have very low damage on small targets.
Single bomb of Notha will cause 1250 dmg to each MEX. While single run of Janus will cause approximately 500-800 damage to each MEX.

Seems like the only advantage of Janus over Notha - it is a good performance against T1 spam of ground units.

0

@jip Yeah, that should work. However allied cruiser and strong anti air capabilities of Nothas, still a strong things.
I want to play against high-ranked players to figure it out.

0

@Artaani Your goal should probably be to kill pgens not mexes...

0

@archsimkat Thought about that, but I tested "how much time is needed to rebuild lost buildings" and turned out that it is required 5 minutes to rebuild MEX-es and only 2 minutes to rebuild generators.

This is due the fact that generators repay its investments much faster than MEX-es.

0

Not having e lowers your mass and e income.

1

@archsimkat It´s dual gap you kinda always get E overflow from team

0

Well, when enemy team doesn't scout, any coordinated strategy works.

@kdrafa91 said in Tactic for Dual Gap with 100% win rate (for 1-3 players):

@archsimkat It´s dual gap you kinda always get E overflow from team

At 600-1000 rank, people cluster T1 pgens around E storage and Hydro; one bombers kills all. Removing almost all T2 pgens at same time will cripple team power output.

0

@jcvjcvjcvjcv If there´s overflow then the dude just pick his engies and starts spaming AA and you are fucked

I´ve seen two replays and when he goes for the mexes he usually gets almost all engies cause the engies are clustered arround the mexes upgrading and ringing, so he also strikes both the buildpower and mexes. People go to 1 mass income in a flash (and RIP Engies.

Also for what i´ve seen from the quick look i took he goes for other important buildings after, not only the mexes.

2

Nice strategy!

On Dual Gap, most any reasonable strategy with a coordinated team can win against a passive team. My point is part of your success is just using team tactics.

I'll see games where a high rated player joins and strat or nuke rushes, only lose because nobody follows through.. the opponent team just rebuilds.

3

1 t1 scout, at the beginning of the game, sees the Serafim t1 plant. Then, in the fog of war, it gets darker at 6 minutes. A person with a brain will make (without air plan,and anti-strat) 2 shields and 1 t2 anti-aircraft guns, or 4 t1 at different distances covering 4x4vs2. This meta consists only in the weak intellect of the players playing there, and they are not able to put up a T2 shield by requesting from those who have technology, or 10 interceptors to kill notes, at a distance due to reconnoitered notes without blocking the enemy or the existing radar around the perimeter. With all this, the responsibility completely weighs in the air, if a person cannot make 15 interceptors and knock down notes, and then realize the full advantage of the left reclaim and the dominance of the economy due to the T3 strat, then you are clearly playing at the level of normal AI.

DONT BELIVE BH HE IS LIEING

0

@zxccursed Of course it can be countered, this is not imbalance tactic.
I just pointed at the fact, that it works for majority of games on Dual Gap.