@Jip said in Show CPU model ID in lobbies:

I'd like to add to this topic that the benchmark being used and throttling are two different problems that would require to be solved separately.

And, next to that, I'd love to add in that:

• You can fake the benchmark score and therefore probably the CPU model too.
• Considering we are 'power users' according to you, overclocking OR underclocking a CPU wouldn't be taken into account if you show the CPU model. Especially underclocking is a powerful technique for laptops to prevent the throttling you mention. Therefore your new technique is also unreliable, as I believe Pearl is trying to show to you

I thought of a version of 'benchmarking' that would be a lot better: every minute throughout the sim you compare the sim rates of all the players in the game. You get a number between -1 and 1, depending if you are below, on or above average.

At the end of the game this number can be merged with previous games - allowing you to show some form of pattern that is more reliable than the current test. If your CPU does perform on average well then this number would be positive. If your CPU performs averagely poor then this number would be negative.

This is all done locally and stored similarly to how the benchmark is stored. As of writing I am not sure how that is stored - there may be a flaw there.

I think it would help best in combination with the current benchmark, which needs to be retrofitted slightly to check for memory speed because that is in fact the major bottleneck for CPU's if no throttling is happening:

• https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/The-Gap-between-Processor-and-Memory-Speeds-Carvalho/6ebec8701893a6770eb0e19a0d4a732852c86256?p2df

From a practical point of view, @speed2 Do you know if there is a way to retrieve the information shown in the console command ren_ShowNetworkStats? It contains all the information this would require.

That would be nice. Effectively you don't only get a 'skill' rating, but also a cpu rating.

However, the only real thing that counts is people being the slowest below 0.

but if, if, but and what about the 1%? And ....

Stop the bs pls. Ppl that want to play with lag can just ignore it.

I suggested this earlier (to display CPU model) and just as now, the excuses not to do it are ridiculous.

Very simple example; ALL the Intel -U CPU's will throttle. That's simply a given because at full boost (that they use for the benchmark) can only be sustained a very short time before power delivery and heat become a problem. For ppl using laptops where the biggest task is opening a 100 page PDF this is excellent and manufacturers can skimp down on power circuits, cooling and the consumer gets a cheaper, lighter and thinner laptop. Not suited for FAF though.

Bigger games in FAF are ruined by ppl with shitty throttling systems. There should be something in place that would override the shown cpu score for these players. That includes the ppl that turn on their software streaming after running the bench, like lilSidlil.

@Pearl12 said in Show CPU model ID in lobbies:

Only if you have all the CPU models memorized. And even then, are you sure every laptop CPU is a distinct model from a tower? And even then, who is to say that every laptop CPU can't play every game?

Your argument boils down to "perfection is not easily achieved, so we should not improve".

@Uveso said in Show CPU model ID in lobbies:

This was the last issue on github about cpu benchmark:
https://github.com/FAForever/fa/issues/2434

Please read my comment:
https://github.com/FAForever/fa/issues/2434#issuecomment-385811821

This could explain why a CPU benchmark is useless in any cases
We should test memory speed.

The first link; hilarious. A Q6600 user still living in about 2006...

The second link; false. CPU speed is still an issue. Thermal throttling is all over the place. Also ppl load up their CPU with things like VLC, Youtube, streaming. The existence of "fast i7's" does not mean everyone has one.

Also; the older i7's are simply too slow anyway. The cheapest current-gen Celeron (the G5900) is faster than the i7-920 for example. 2nd gen i5 is already faster than 1st gen i7.

When does one stop being new and start being "older"?

I have left for a year. Just completely had it with the simspeed lag, quitters, disconnects and FAF's appeasement to laggers.

Also, when starting out this game is really a pain. You get kicked for too low rating, too few games, 'being gray', 'you are smurf' etc. etc. The few games that remain tend to be modded and full of noobs... playing a modded game while not even understanding the base game. And the horrible lag. I can't remember any other multiplayer game that tolerates this amount of lag.

I've had friends that used to be 1100 rated that now dropped below 1k. Every game we play they complain they can't get in 'any nice game' because '1k+' is also a thing.

Oh, and the lobby SIM. It takes forever to fill up a lobby. This results in self-reinforcing circle with a few maps being played more and more because everything else 'will take too long'. The same problem exists with older shooter games too btw.

@tatsu said in Why would you have left FAF?:

it's called "All Welcome (Noobs and Grays too)!...

Yeah, and laggers too probably?

Fullshare was once the default and it should be again. Without it, too many games are decided by disconnects.

If you are dumb enough to kill the lowest rated enemies first in a fullshare game... well... you will tend to lose rating xD

If you join a Setons lobby and Full share is not enabled while not as such advertized in title... you can be pretty sure the host has a team full of buddies with some optimized strategy to whack 1-2 of your teammates...

@archsimkat said in Lower toxic chat in teamgames with individual points:

@kitenoob said in Lower toxic chat in teamgames with individual points:

Most of the respondents suggested giving mutas in the game chat.

You can already mute other players in your game...

Really? How?

Looks very nice.

Don't really know about the rest of the discussion as I don't use the matchmaker.

Yeah, in Age of Empires II they had a % next to your nickname... showing % of games you didn't quit. Below 95% almost nobody let you in their lobby. My computer froze on like my 10th game... ouch lol.

@Arkansas said in Good laptops to play FAF on. Any recommendations?:

I have been playing Setons just fine on an HP Envy X360 15 with a Ryzen 7 4700u (which is a slim laptop with a 15 watt CPU). I'm never the slowest person in the game (and I don't think i've noticed it going behind +0).

I suspect any Intel tiger lake or AMD renoir CPU will handle the game just fine. There have been some decent advances in mobile CPU tech in the past 12-24 months so I'd say a lot of the hearsay about them not working well for FAF is outdated.

Not being the slowest doesn't mean jack shit when we don't know what other players were there... 90% of the games are hosted with obvious laggers in them.

Current gen Ryzen is pretty good, the first two (1600X, 2600X) were kinda lousy.

@Rowey said in Best CPU 2020 for FA (Intel vs AMD):

Ryzen chips dont show a High Cpu score but will sustan the higher sim ticks later on in the game

Nah, they performed according to bench number; worse than i5's from 2011.

@Jip said in Show CPU model ID in lobbies:

I'd like to add to this topic that the benchmark being used and throttling are two different problems that would require to be solved separately.

And, next to that, I'd love to add in that:

• You can fake the benchmark score and therefore probably the CPU model too.
• Considering we are 'power users' according to you, overclocking OR underclocking a CPU wouldn't be taken into account if you show the CPU model. Especially underclocking is a powerful technique for laptops to prevent the throttling you mention. Therefore your new technique is also unreliable, as I believe Pearl is trying to show to you

I thought of a version of 'benchmarking' that would be a lot better: every minute throughout the sim you compare the sim rates of all the players in the game. You get a number between -1 and 1, depending if you are below, on or above average.

At the end of the game this number can be merged with previous games - allowing you to show some form of pattern that is more reliable than the current test. If your CPU does perform on average well then this number would be positive. If your CPU performs averagely poor then this number would be negative.

This is all done locally and stored similarly to how the benchmark is stored. As of writing I am not sure how that is stored - there may be a flaw there.

I think it would help best in combination with the current benchmark, which needs to be retrofitted slightly to check for memory speed because that is in fact the major bottleneck for CPU's if no throttling is happening:

• https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/The-Gap-between-Processor-and-Memory-Speeds-Carvalho/6ebec8701893a6770eb0e19a0d4a732852c86256?p2df

From a practical point of view, @speed2 Do you know if there is a way to retrieve the information shown in the console command ren_ShowNetworkStats? It contains all the information this would require.

That would be nice. Effectively you don't only get a 'skill' rating, but also a cpu rating.

However, the only real thing that counts is people being the slowest below 0.

@Pearl12 said in Show CPU model ID in lobbies:

@jcvjcvjcvjcv said in Show CPU model ID in lobbies:

@Pearl12 said in Show CPU model ID in lobbies:

Only if you have all the CPU models memorized. And even then, are you sure every laptop CPU is a distinct model from a tower? And even then, who is to say that every laptop CPU can't play every game?

Showing CPU make and model would be an improvement over the current situation. It is not unreliable. Currently there are too many fake low bench scores. And most of those are laptop players.
You do not need to memorize all the models, nor are there that many.

If you are asking for cpu model in addition to speed score, then sure. Go ahead.

I never asked for the removal of the bench. So yes; in addition to.

@jcvjcvjcvjcv said in Show CPU model ID in lobbies:

Your argument about that some average does not know something goes pretty flat on it's face as this whole game is something very few people master. The people that do not care about lag can continue their normal business of playing with players with 400 cpu score.

It doesn't have to fall flat on its face, because you're not standing up to begin with. You have no data to back up your argument. You have, once again, made a generalization. "Oh, people master this game, therefore they must know all the CPU models." Orly.

Where. is. your. data?

People not knowing the cpu model can just ignore it, just like 90% of the hosts ignore full cpu bench benc bar...

@Azraeel said in Show CPU model ID in lobbies:

@jcvjcvjcvjcv

You must be playing with some very bad cpus are smth, but I do understand that thermothrottling is a bitch.

Well, my foelist of people that lag disproportionally bad compared to their bench score is quite big... Some people do PM me when they have fixed their shit to have themselves scrapped from that list.

But you always have to tab out and see in the client window if there are foes in the lobby; it will not show in the game window itself, which makes no sense whatsoever.

@Sprouto said in Sound issues sins last update:

I also want to point out that Microsoft has just released a Windows update that includes a 'spatial sound' processor aimed at headphones. This bit of MS magic will give you VERY odd sound and should be turned off.

Do you happen to know the KB number? Then I can flag it in WSUS. It's definitely not one of the "big" updates since I block those by default. I have two PC's that I play FAF on; one behind my own WSUS server, one gets updated directly. I now have the "no/some sound" issue on both.