Addressing the Decline of 1v1: A Proposal for a More Balanced FAF Experience

[maudlin27]

Forcing people to play 1v1 games they might hate before they can play games they might like is a great way to make people give up on FAF, decreasing the playerbase, and in the long term resulting in fewer people playing 1v1.

Rating already helps address your proposed benefits. Someone never scouts, has a terrible build order, and is a liability as a teammate? They'll have a low rating. 1v1 also requires a very different playstyle to TMM or gap or astro so it's not like forcing someone to play 1v1 would automatically make them better at the gamemode they want to play. In 1v1 (at the lower ratings you're discussing) the game's almost always decided by who can spam the most t1 tanks. In teamgames focusing on this risks being left far behind in eco if the enemy team combines forces to repel your t1 spam, as well as there being few mexes to contest on maps like astro.

[Crofis]

As much as waffelz post sounds like mocking, it has some points. 1v1 was miserable for me, there is too much to handle at once and no pointers. Maybe some sort of "training" could help new players. Like campaign missions, but isolated, with a script to guide players and let them develop basic skills (e.g. explanation on how bp relates to energy and mass, practice to balance eco, examples with multiple engies draining resources, explanation on different energy to mass ratios for different buildings). As usual, i know the main limit here is someone willing to create this stuff.

I disagree with making 1v1 mandatory, or to make anything else mandatory. I would suggest once again to limit the pull that astro/gap have on new players (new players get kicked from more experienced lobbies, get demolished in ladder, and the only place where they feel welcome is astro/gap lobbies. Not only because they are generally more tolerant, but basically because they are just more. It's a self-sustaining issue imo. We should encourage small custom games (like 2v2-4v4) rather than 5v5+ shitfests where game knowledge is absent and impossible to learn. Even i struggle in 6v6, and i have almost 2k games, fuck sake, everything seems random.

Another thing that could help would be a fast reset feature, where you can try a BO and reset the game without restarting the lobby, or having to yolona your base. The same feature even in multiplayer games could help beginners (and not just beginners) to train more effectively and in a less frustrating way (think about trying your start 20 times, but with an insta reset rather than quit>create lobby>load>start>load>play>repeat). Yes, yes i know, either "game engine issue" or "yeah but who is gonna work on that? It would take so much time". I can't offer a concrete solution sadly. I think that if we had the tools to make this possible it would bring huge improvements.

[Nuggets]

@Crofis maybe something hosted automatically by a bot?
Have a bot host your average teamgame map or mapgen (or both).
Its a huge difference to tmm, because you know the map and the players before the game. Not sure how well players would use this, but in my mind it should work fairly decently

On the technical side ofc, i have no clur + the fact that someone also has to do it...

[Skrat]

First, let's look at these statistics ( https://forum.faforever.com/topic/9118/faf-statistics-megathread-2-statistics-boogaloo?_=1752673169738 ), which can be used to come to the following conclusions:

1. Most FAF players have a rating below 1000. Even if they all play 1x1, you won't notice it.
2. Most beginners play less than 10 games. This means that the game is difficult or not interesting for them. 1x1 is a hard and specific mode. It will only scare new players away from the FAF.

I was on the training team and talked a lot with the newcomers. Most of them want quiet games where they can safely up the economy. Many people have been playing mod games, survival and cooperative missions for years without even playing global games. There's no way you can make ladder interesting to them.

Also let's look at the last 5 seasons in 1x1 (11-15)

We can see that the number of 1x1 players remains +- at the same level. Therefore, it is irrelevant to talk about the decline of 1x1. Yes, there is a decrease in the number of 1x1 players compared to 2022. But for a variety of reasons known to us, the number of games and players in general has decreased compared to 2022, and not just in 1x1.

I love 1x1 and I want more people to play ladder. But forcing players is a bad idea.
I like Thomas' ideas. We also need more 1x1 game casts. 1x1 can be interesting to comment on. Not everyone can watch tournament streams. And of course we need more tutorial video for 1x1.

[Skrat]

@Nuggets I don't think the problem is with the maps. Most 3x3 map generation is terrible, and almost all of my friends agree with this. But that doesn't stop people from playing 3x3. A 1x1 veto will only help you choose easy maps for yourself.

[Kilatamoro]

This is some delusional dictatorship attempt: "I love 1v1! Not enough players play 1v1! Force everyone to play 1v1! Because it teaches you... things..."

[Crofis]

@Nuggets Might be an idea, botted mapgen lobbies so people can join them and not get kicked for being too low. Maybe with a game requirements (like no more than X, or rank lower than Y). I have no idea on the tech side either, but good suggestion!

[Nuggets]

@Crofis said in Addressing the Decline of 1v1: A Proposal for a More Balanced FAF Experience:

@Nuggets Might be an idea, botted mapgen lobbies so people can join them and not get kicked for being too low. Maybe with a game requirements (like no more than X, or rank lower than Y). I have no idea on the tech side either, but good suggestion!

Doesnt have to be just mapgen. I think this would be pretty sick tbh to always see a hosted mapgen and teamgame by a bot which allows those kinds of ratings.
Its easier to use than queue, because it doesnt start automatically, so you can do something else meanwhile. Although it would need an auto kick function if a player doesnt x...

[VindexNoob]

(one of the last) ladder player opinion: all other gamemodes than 1v1 should be deleted from FAF or at least unranked

1 Teamgames are not fun
Teamgamers are a social crutch of people that are afraid to look themselves in the mirror. They cannot admit they are worse than 1v1 players, they don't know the micro and macro basics. The only fun you can have in this game is outplaying your opponent on syrtis

2 1v1 is the only gamemode with real gameplay
Why queue ladder?

• every second matters
• every mistake is your own
• you learn
• it is discipline

3 Why keep the trash?
No more astro, no more gap, no setons. No 10 minute lobbies where players disconnect. 1v1 is also connection stability - very low chance of losing cons or w/e
Mapgen should also be nuked from the existence, play on real handmade maps. Use superior tactics, crush the inferior

4 Save FAF
Global rating is more inflated than banana. Only ladder rating matters. It reflects personal skill, can't be farmed

Wanna keep FAF alive? Keep 1v1
Want to boost competitiveness? Focus on 1v1
Stop babysitting players
Let ladder reign supreme

If ladder dies we can quit the game

[Brutus5000]

Beginners could benefit from tutorial missions for eco or basic t1 / t2 game play with timed results. StarCraft 2 WoL had such things in the beginning. Examples:

You have X minutes to eco, produce 1k mass for bronze, 2k mass for silver, 3k mass for gold.

You have this base. Build optimal units and destroy the this firebase. 5 mins for bronze, 4 mins for silver, 3 mins for acu.

You have these units and your acu. Kill this base within X minutes with losing as few units as possible...

But I assume nobody got time for scripting this, reading the results and make it usable in the client

[HAID_SOLO]

@Vindex r3al

[Deribus]

@Haidovic let me rephrase what you're asking for.

1v1 queue is dead, and 3v3 is full of noobs. So to solve both problems we're going to take all the 3v3 noobs and force them to play 1v1. Now 3v3 queue is dead and 1v1 queue is full of noobs who don't even want to be playing 1v1 in the first place.

What did we solve here exactly?

[Yew]

Someone trying to do good for the community?

Quick, down vote down vote down vote.

No idea why you have @IndexLibrorum a "GLOBAL MODERATOR" trolling you like this.

I swear he downvotes everything he see on the forums.

You should have to be a certain age to be a mod of anything in my opinion, unless you're actually mature.

[SpikeyNoob]

Downvoted!

[Jip]

@Psalm-19-1 I can't speak for others, but if I would downvote something it's because I don't agree with the sentiment. And in this case I personally do not agree with the sentiment to force people to play 1v1. Or to force them to do anything other then what is strictly necessary.

I think the suggestion of Brutus is probably best. A solid tutorial-like infrastructure where people can learn the basics of Supreme Commander. Perhaps even the basics of just playing an RTS. Gamify it a little bit with medals to give people an idea when they are 'good enough' at a topic. (New) players can then do these at their own accord.

[HAID_SOLO]

This was a troll post, i thought it was more obvious

sorry to everyone that actually took time to think about this

thanks for the funny mockery replies, had a good laugh

[Nomander]

At least there were some interesting ideas from thomas, nuggets, and brutus aside from the main troll topic. Engagement bait worked (even though its evil).

[IndexLibrorum]

@Haidovic I, for one, was entirely serious about my proposed astrocrater revival proposal.

[Yew]

@SpikeyNoob then you have these random clown mods that don't even play the game lol. This server is cooked.