Do not add new colors - discussion
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The default colors are bad enough with my colorblindness but with the new list of colors half of those colors have one or two or three others that I struggle to differentiate.
I don't think these should be added and the PR should be reversed.
There is a compromise: make a ranked UI/Sim mod that does nothing but add colors and let the players choose whether to play with it or not.
I can only speak for me personally but adding these new colors is making playing the game worse due to my bad eyesight.
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I think currently people are agreeing more to not add more colors. I think instead of adding (which would have to be lighter/saturated variants to avoid being too similar) we can actually remove 2 shades of green and adjust some colors so visualization is better.
I think we could all agree that the CURRENT color scheme is bad because it offers alot of greens and it's quite confusing
Yes, that is in the CURRENT client. So, I believe we should add more colors. Otherwise, I hope we can all agree that we don't need 4 shades of green.
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For me its not so much as having more colours but how they are used so to be able to easily tell which team a player is on, so for example one team could be warm colours and the other team can be cold colours or something like this.
even more an issue when playing multiple games a day and lets say last game red was on my team and now this game red is on the other team, sometimes its easy to forget if you see red to react to it or think nah thats my team mates stuff.
maybe for a host to be able to force a theme of team colours in a custom game
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IMO we should keep all the existing colours no matter if we add more or not.
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@spikeynoob said in Do not add new colors - discussion:
IMO we should keep all the existing colours no matter if we add more or not.
Any reasoning for that?
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Mostly because i know people by certain colours and it will throw me off if everyone is suddenly a different colour. Also it seems unneeded since i can distinguish (ik other might be unable to, thus the imo) the current ones just fine.
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Would be nice if you could preference your colours so it auto picks your preferred colour based on the colours that are still available.
E.g- Blue
- Red
- White etc
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How hard would it be to make a lobby mod where you put your favorite colors into an ordered list and then the lobby mod automatically picks your most favorite color available whenever you join a lobby?
It wouldn't have to do anything else. Like it wouldn't have to grab up your favorite color every time a player with that color released it. It would just always try to give you your favorite color whenever you join a lobby.
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I suggest you guys play on FAF develop more and see how the new colors actually are in practice rather than just basing opinions on how they look in a list that specifically ordered them in a way that makes them look more blended/similar than the other ordering systems.
@arma473 said in Do not add new colors - discussion:
How hard would it be to make a lobby mod where you put your favorite colors into an ordered list and then the lobby mod automatically picks your most favorite color available whenever you join a lobby?
Btw, I already want to make an integrated (not mod-based) automatic color selector for FAF if someone else makes a UI for choosing ranked color preferences. That would be used for custom games. It could be applied to TMM as well if allowed, but that would be a topic for another thread.
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@ftxcommando said in Do not add new colors - discussion:
No one argues that the current FAF color list is perfect, but there is no functional reason to expand beyond 20 colors. There is barely a functional reason to even have 20 colors beyond not making the last dude in an 8v8 sad.
If people want to optimize the current list of colors I think anybody would be for it, but every list I've seen has problems with making it way harder to communicate what is going on with teams because no generic person has 3 variations of green in their vernacular that can be explained to people that have English as their 2nd or 3rd language or just not a language at all.
The reason to go beyond 16 in case someone in lobby is a colourblind for a colour in theory we have additional options. Beyond that other reason I could see is have it rainbow colours alternating if as a neat reference (but that could cause isses with casting tmm as noted due to issues of colour scheming)
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I really doubt there is a type of color blindness that would benefit from that selection of 5 colors but wouldn’t be hampered by the other 15 colors selected for instance.
There is a color mode that makes you/ally/enemy units 3 different colors already. Adapt that to a color blind mode and there you go.
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Fair enough, its just only reason I can see why we'd have 4 more colours than alloted players (actually that a lie if we had a for people to 'jump' in any already started match that is reason #2 I could see but I also want pie while flying).
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@femboy I like your list.
Consider modifying the final list
- Third item down --> more skin tone brown #743D2B
- Fourth item down --> more energetic cadmium orange #FF4700
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Another suggestion: most of the colors are neon type energy. We could have a neon set of colors and a pastel set. I do NOT mean add all these colors. Rather it is a strategy to have more contrasting colors.
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Last suggestion, we could add skin tone colors. I'm sure there would be no problems in chat.!
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There absolutely are types of colorblindness that could benefit from having more available colors by being able to selectively choose the most contrasting colors on the list for their particular form of colorblindness.
That concept of a larger color list enabling more people to pick and choose colors that offer more contrast for them is something that applies to non-colorblind users as well btw. Same thing with a larger color list allowing people to pick colors that are more aesthetically desirable to them.
That's in addition to the benefits of larger color lists giving people the ability to make more color-themed teams and giving them more colors to choose their preference from.
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More colors means more options for everyone to pick the marginally less different version of X because they prefer it. It looks like it helps colorblindness due to options but people don’t operate by caring what a single colorblind person in lobby has to say about it over their personal joy at being off brand white
More options does not equate to more gooder.
Show me
A) the group of 15 colors that would work for various color blind variations
B) the group of 5 colors that would present a problem for these variations that they could choose between
C) the intended solution from these 5 colorsOtherwise, converting the green/red/blue mode I mentioned prior to a color blind mode is superior than adjusting these colors to fit everything.
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Positively pewter and lush lavender are NOT the same color!? Please don't make it harder than it already is... ><
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@femboy said in Do not add new colors - discussion:
Also @Uveso, sadly, being accessible isn't a possibility since either we'll run into very similar colors everyone can see or we can have different colors that the color blind cannot differentiate.
We should try our best to maximize accessibility, not claim it can't be done. What we can do is maximize the contrast or difference in hue between each individual color, and the way we do that is to minimize the total number of colors we have—to the amount needed for the largest amount of players, which seems to be 16 (as I have personally never seen a match greater than 8v8). That way the difference in hue between individual colors is, on average, maximized, and the game becomes easier to read for people with the most common types of color blindness (Red–green and blue–yellow), as well as people with normal eyesight.
I think we could all agree that the CURRENT color scheme is bad because it offers alot of greens and it's quite confusing
I agree that the current color scheme isn't perfect, and like I said in the original post, the focus should be just on improving them (perhaps by removing some colors), not adding new ones. By the way, the greens are not any better in the PR, if anything it's even worse:
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Could we simply have a selection of different colour palettes that can be toggled between by the user? There are a few different kinds of colour blindness, so having a colour palette designed to provide maximum contrast for each kind of colour blindness would be ideal (it's not a one sized fits all thing).
i.e. there are 20 colours in the game now, have an option that swaps these colours like for like with a set of 20 high contrast colours depending on your kind of colour blindness.
