Ythotha, time for a change

@deribus Or make a storm toggle.

@xiaomao said in Ythotha, time for a change:

Comparing Ythota to friggin ML is bullshit. Considering they have 2 massively different roles. One is assault bot that you wanna micro, the second one is more of a stealthy surprise. Btw there is only like 1k difference in mass between GC(27.5K) and Ythotha while monke is what? 19K mass?

I don't see why their roles should be "massiveley" different. They are both basically "bunker busters". The Monkey by being able to be on the field earlier -> cheaper, the chicken with his collosus death even destroys armies and bases when he dies. so they are both extremely effective in that role imo.

I just find the area dmg of the dead chicken in team games too strong. you can basically charge in and you can't really lose. Either your chicken kills the monkey and t3 army or the area dmg of the dead chicken kills the rest of the army or even the base. The cost to benefit is too stong in favor of the seraphim. Cybran doesnt have sniper bots. so if you dont have air or 2 monkeys, it's really hard to fend of.

It isn't a bunker buster, it's used to kill big t3 armies. Monkey sucks at killing big t3 armies.

Ythotha loses in every one on one, unlike monkey and gc, it does not have lazers, meaning only a few clicks can allow you to dodge 2 of its 3 weapons. just bait the eye canon with clicks and then enjoy the easy win.

You can actually kill a Ythotha with a ML, its just very unlikely to happen and very hard to pull off. You need to dodge all the balls and not get scouted when closing distance. So it's possible but not probable.

The Ythotha is the best designed unit in the game. It is intuitive and simple to dodge the giant eyeball cannon, and it has a cool, unique death mechanic that means you have to be careful using them in numbers of with armies.

sorry but the best designed unit in game is clearly janus

Approved by FtX lobby

With good micro:

A ml hardcounters othuums
A chicken and snipers hardcounters a ml
A mega counters a chicken and snipers
Othuums with t3 shields counter a mega

Profit?

Comparing a ythota to a monkeylord is like comparing a mantis and an othuum

There seems to be a lot of love for Ythotha. Dont get me wrong, I like it as well, I just think the "killing everything in the area it dies" feature is too stong in the 4v4 ladder.

And I dont agree that it's easy to kill with just some micro. usually it doesnt attack alone, it has also an army and t3 mobile shields with it. it has also a pretty good range which gives it a micro and safety advantage as well.

I don't say it's broken, but maybe needs a nerf regarding to the 4v4 ladder games.

don't you feel like nerfing a unit because it's "broken" in a very specific game scenario is a bit weird?

@rezy-noob said in Ythotha, time for a change:

don't you feel like nerfing a unit because it's "broken" in a very specific game scenario is a bit weird?

To be honest, no because in this case the Ythotha is the ONLY t4 that deals large amount of area damage AFTER it dies. That gives the Seraphim player an uncountrable advantage which makes it imbalanced in my view. it's already a decent t4 unit but having the colussus death has a (too?) strong impact in team games imo.

It's the land unit equivalent of fall damage from air experimentals. The difference is that I'm pretty sure a single t2 shield with some assistance negates storm damage. Could be mistaken though I feel like that doesn't come up much. It's much easier to stop it before it gets to close to something important than an air exp is if things are relatively equal.

@exselsior said in Ythotha, time for a change:

It's the land unit equivalent of fall damage from air experimentals. The difference is that I'm pretty sure a single t2 shield with some assistance negates storm damage. Could be mistaken though I feel like that doesn't come up much. It's much easier to stop it before it gets to close to something important than an air exp is if things are relatively equal.

That is a possible explanation but the air t4's are MUCH more expensive and come therefore much later in the game. They are also arguably easier to kill since by that time you should have large amounts of ASF's which can bring them down quickly if focused. That a much cheaper t4 land experimental has that feature (and only 1 faction of the 4) makes to me no sense.

I can count the number of games the ion storm did anything noteworthy in any game I watched/played on one hand.

imo if anything is done about it, it shouldn't be storm nerf, it is one unique thing about the unit and should remain, it also isn't that strong, just move out of the way for 10 or so seconds that it is happening, it is also completely random anyways that whoever used it can't guarantee it will attack the proper target or even a hostile one (friendly fire is just as easy), it is more like a damage over time death nuke

I also thought that monkey dying used to cause an instant aoe damage and stun, but maybe that was only in steam FA or even original supcom

I think the Ythotha is in a good spot, there is probably a better argument that the unit could do with a slight buff rather then a significant nerf.

imo both the gc and Ythotha need sligth range nerfs

Why can the death lightening ball target units but not structures (assuming full intel)? Units within range are always hit, while structures within range are only hit apparently at random.