Ythotha, time for a change

Hey guys, playing quite a bit of 4v4's recently.

In my opinion the Ythotha is in these kind of team games and current maps a bit too strong.

It costs only about 25% more mass than a monkey but is much stronger. In a direct fight the Ythotha is still at half life while the monkey is gone. Even if you manage to kill it, the collossus Death deals further massive damage. It even kills a com in a very short amount of time.

Also Collossus Death denies the area for a considerable amount of time during you can't reposition your army or get reclaim. So the Ythotha player actually can't do anything wrong. it's stronger than the monkey and if it dies, it hinders the opponent teams army quite a lot with collossus death or if you manage to get into the base, you basically destroy the base no matter what.

I feel like it gives way too much benefit for it's cost especially in a team game and therefore should be either more expensive, so it's closer to the Aeons Galactic Collosus or it gets nerfed so you don't get a massive benefit by using it no matter what you do. For instance shorten the time of collusus death and it's damage. Right now it's 10'000 to an area of 8 which seems crazy strong to me.

I noticed that recently a lot of Seraphim players seem to figured that out and I see a Ythotha in almost every 4v4 match arount the 20min mark now.

Thanks for considering a change of the Ythotha Balancing Team.

Comparing Ythota to friggin ML is bullshit. Considering they have 2 massively different roles. One is assault bot that you wanna micro, the second one is more of a stealthy surprise. Btw there is only like 1k difference in mass between GC(27.5K) and Ythotha while monke is what? 19K mass?

Pretty much the opposite of OP, but I was thinking recently that Ythothas should be made immune to allied electrical storms. Wouldn't buff individual Ythothas but would help out ultra-late game if you're sending 5 at a time so they don't all electrocute each other to death.

Chicken sucks at scaling up. It's a response tool for sera to deal with blobs of t3. If sera wants to kill other t4s, they got sniper death ball and can suicide in some chickens for the sake of tanking for said death ball against a mega or the equivalent.

They shouldn't be immune to their ion storm because that's exactly why they suck at scaling up. Don't use them like that.

@deribus Or make a storm toggle.

@xiaomao said in Ythotha, time for a change:

Comparing Ythota to friggin ML is bullshit. Considering they have 2 massively different roles. One is assault bot that you wanna micro, the second one is more of a stealthy surprise. Btw there is only like 1k difference in mass between GC(27.5K) and Ythotha while monke is what? 19K mass?

I don't see why their roles should be "massiveley" different. They are both basically "bunker busters". The Monkey by being able to be on the field earlier -> cheaper, the chicken with his collosus death even destroys armies and bases when he dies. so they are both extremely effective in that role imo.

I just find the area dmg of the dead chicken in team games too strong. you can basically charge in and you can't really lose. Either your chicken kills the monkey and t3 army or the area dmg of the dead chicken kills the rest of the army or even the base. The cost to benefit is too stong in favor of the seraphim. Cybran doesnt have sniper bots. so if you dont have air or 2 monkeys, it's really hard to fend of.

It isn't a bunker buster, it's used to kill big t3 armies. Monkey sucks at killing big t3 armies.

Ythotha loses in every one on one, unlike monkey and gc, it does not have lazers, meaning only a few clicks can allow you to dodge 2 of its 3 weapons. just bait the eye canon with clicks and then enjoy the easy win.

You can actually kill a Ythotha with a ML, its just very unlikely to happen and very hard to pull off. You need to dodge all the balls and not get scouted when closing distance. So it's possible but not probable.

The Ythotha is the best designed unit in the game. It is intuitive and simple to dodge the giant eyeball cannon, and it has a cool, unique death mechanic that means you have to be careful using them in numbers of with armies.

sorry but the best designed unit in game is clearly janus

Approved by FtX lobby

With good micro:

A ml hardcounters othuums
A chicken and snipers hardcounters a ml
A mega counters a chicken and snipers
Othuums with t3 shields counter a mega

Profit?

Comparing a ythota to a monkeylord is like comparing a mantis and an othuum

There seems to be a lot of love for Ythotha. Dont get me wrong, I like it as well, I just think the "killing everything in the area it dies" feature is too stong in the 4v4 ladder.

And I dont agree that it's easy to kill with just some micro. usually it doesnt attack alone, it has also an army and t3 mobile shields with it. it has also a pretty good range which gives it a micro and safety advantage as well.

I don't say it's broken, but maybe needs a nerf regarding to the 4v4 ladder games.

don't you feel like nerfing a unit because it's "broken" in a very specific game scenario is a bit weird?

@rezy-noob said in Ythotha, time for a change:

don't you feel like nerfing a unit because it's "broken" in a very specific game scenario is a bit weird?

To be honest, no because in this case the Ythotha is the ONLY t4 that deals large amount of area damage AFTER it dies. That gives the Seraphim player an uncountrable advantage which makes it imbalanced in my view. it's already a decent t4 unit but having the colussus death has a (too?) strong impact in team games imo.

It's the land unit equivalent of fall damage from air experimentals. The difference is that I'm pretty sure a single t2 shield with some assistance negates storm damage. Could be mistaken though I feel like that doesn't come up much. It's much easier to stop it before it gets to close to something important than an air exp is if things are relatively equal.

@exselsior said in Ythotha, time for a change:

It's the land unit equivalent of fall damage from air experimentals. The difference is that I'm pretty sure a single t2 shield with some assistance negates storm damage. Could be mistaken though I feel like that doesn't come up much. It's much easier to stop it before it gets to close to something important than an air exp is if things are relatively equal.

That is a possible explanation but the air t4's are MUCH more expensive and come therefore much later in the game. They are also arguably easier to kill since by that time you should have large amounts of ASF's which can bring them down quickly if focused. That a much cheaper t4 land experimental has that feature (and only 1 faction of the 4) makes to me no sense.

I can count the number of games the ion storm did anything noteworthy in any game I watched/played on one hand.