Tactical missile launchers
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#19361964
Just for your viewing pleasure here is a replay of me getting absolutey wrecked by TML abuse on badlands TMM i think buy the end he killed about 18000 mass with four tmls, shameful on my part but i dont practice my 4v1 very often.
just waiting for the noob comments to come pouring in why you didnt build tmd bla bla bla, i had some clearly not enough and my tiny monkey brain doing more that one thing a minute.
I still think for the damage they can do in such a small amount of time they are way to cheap, one guys builds a few of them in one place on the map and continues to destroy everysingle t2 mex i had losing me the game forcing me to build about 5k in tmd all over the place
they are imo the worst thing in the game, i should have just cntrl K at that point.
At least they shouldnt kill the wreck aswell thats just cruel.
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I do agree that TML killing the wrecks is a bit overpowered. I don't know if mexes should have more HP, and I don't really think TML should do less damage, but I believe it is possible to increase only the HP of the reclaim left behind by mexes.
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TMLs are a bit similar to nukes in that they are basically always a decent investment in team games on semi open maps. You only need one player to make them, but every base needs defenses and if even one doesn't make those, you get a huge return on your investment.
As a result they, like many similar aggressive tools, are very strong in the rating range where people are good enough to use them, but not consistent enough to always defend against them correctly. You could argue that they are straight up OP in the 1k-1.5k rating range.
Sadly this imbalance of units in different rating ranges is pretty much an unavoidable side-effect of the huge game complexity. Subs and stealth units for example are just completely broken in the <1k range as nobody there is able to deal with them correctly.
Maybe there is a way to balance TMLs for more rating ranges while keeping it interesting. Maybe TMLs not killing mex wrecks is a way to do so, but honestly I'm not convinced they need to be changed at all.
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@caliber said in Tactical missile launchers:
#19361964
Just for your viewing pleasure here is a replay of me getting absolutey wrecked by TML abuse on badlands TMM i think buy the end he killed about 18000 mass with four tmls, shameful on my part but i dont practice my 4v1 very often.
As a side note, kinda independent from the TML discussion: You were in a 4v1 situation while having only a bit more than half of your opponents eco:
You played really well, but unless you are hugely underrated, you winning this game would have been a miracle.
Or phrased differently: The TMLs basically ended the game, but they aren't the reason you lost.
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TMLs are OP, they basically pay themselves off after a single t2 mex especially when you take into account you can simply ctrl+k it safely for reclaim.
Problem is basically everyone is too bad/too lazy to properly abuse it. Since it’s one of the few proper punishments of greed eco, it shouldn’t get adjusted until it’s a real problem. Losing a 4v1 because you don’t have the attention span to deal with a TML, rebuilding tmd as it goes down, etc is just smart play.
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@ftxcommando said in Tactical missile launchers:
TMLs are OP, they basically pay themselves off after a single t2 mex especially when you take into account you can simply ctrl+k it safely for reclaim.
Problem is basically everyone is too bad/too lazy to properly abuse it. Since it’s one of the few proper punishments of greed eco, it shouldn’t get adjusted until it’s a real problem. Losing a 4v1 because you don’t have the attention span to deal with a TML, rebuilding tmd as it goes down, etc is just smart play.
TMLs take a fair bit of attention, but if you can manage it, they're incredible, I agree.
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They take something like -6 mass irc, how does that compare to t2 tanks if you fail on your tml targets?
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No!
T2 missiles are fine as is. tmd is ridicilously cheap to build and very, very effective.
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@hakkapeliitta said in Tactical missile launchers:
cheap to build and very, very effective.
I would argue the opposite for tmd, aeon range is terrible forcing you to build more and uef tmd is also terrible, in a recent game i watched my single tml get through uef tmd because its so slow, not to mention the cybran missiles that fracture needing about 3 times as much tmd.
and yes a single tmd might be cheap but consider the cost of protecting every mex on a map where your stuff is spread out it takes a long time to get those protected and in previous games costs about 5k mass so not that cheap.
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to have a TML reach every enemy mex you have to build it in an exposed and easily destroyed position
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@caliber said in Tactical missile launchers:
uef tmd is also terrible, in a recent game i watched my single tml get through uef tmd because its so slow
Replay ID and timestamp please
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@cheeseberry said in Tactical missile launchers:
Replay ID and timestamp please
#19374808
minute 12.30
although i think the main reason was rushed/poor positioning from the user as uef tmd takes 2 shots to kill a missile and was only able to get a single shot off which is why they kinda suck
killed about 6.5k mass and forced them to spend over 3k mass in tmd
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@caliber said in Tactical missile launchers:
#19374808
minute 12.30
although i think the main reason was rushed/poor positioning from the user
Fascinating that the mex wasn't covered by the tmd.
as uef tmd takes 2 shots to kill a missile and was only able to get a single shot off which is why they kinda suck
All non-aeon tmd takes two shots to kill a TML missile. The main reason why uef tmd had the title as "worst tmd" in the past was that their slow projectile speed made them much more likely to overkill missiles.
Due to the tmd changes a while ago overkilling missiles is no longer a thing though, so while UEF tmd is still probably the worst of the non-aeon ones, it's barely noticeable now.
Just to make sure I'm not full of BS, here is the area of safety a tmd provides against a sera TML (tested today in 19383985).
UEF TMD:
Cybran TMD:
AEON TMD:
(too lazy to test sera tmd too)
I wouldn't overthink those exact profiles, they vary a bit depending on terrain and exact placement. Also I just spam clicked a single tml on +20 game speed until storages stopped dying, which isn't the most systematic way of testing.
But in short: All TMDs are surprisingly bad at their job, although at least uef isn't uniquely bad at that.
What really surprised me is how close you can get to kill something right in front of the tmd. Nobody is really exploiting that, but they probably should xd
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Cheese tou saying tmd fsil to stop tmls?
Or well 1 TML > 1 TMD?
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I think TML is fine for the most part. It's one of the major reasons you need to keep your opponent scouted besides just knowing what they're doing. My only complaint is that it kills the wreck of a t2 mex as well. That's the only part that seems a tad OP.
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@dragun101 said in Tactical missile launchers:
Cheese tou saying tmd fsil to stop tmls?
Basically anything build infront of a tmd but still in range is not fully protected unless you are either aeon or have build multiple tmd
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You meant in front in the front half tmd defensive circle?
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@dragun101 said in Tactical missile launchers:
You meant in front in the front half tmd defensive circle?
Yes