Weekly Discussion #18 - Making Hydro more interesting

Keeping the cost/benefit ratio the same doesn’t say much since hydro is currently more efficient than anything that isn’t a t3 pgen. I would also put discouraging aggression as a negative not a positive in the form FAF currently is in.

@ftxcommando If hydros are more worthwhile at the T2+ stages of the game it could encourage aggression by having players fight for hydro spots on the map similar to mexes (although this assumes more maps are created with hydros in places other than the start point)

Basically all maps with hydros in contested areas already have mexes there as well. Only decent map off hand where that isn’t true is hardshield oasis. Getting a hydro is still pretty significant even when you’re on t2 pgens, it’s only t3 pgen stage where it doesn’t matter.

What if guys food for thought:
We may T3 Hydros avaliable as upgrade to options once you have a T3 HQ

Hydros could also have different upgrades granting you a global buff, while you control the hydro.
For example all your radars are larger etc.
So the Hydro would be contested lategame, for the big stat bonuses, which are not as valuable in the early game.
And without eco bonuses this wouldn't speed up eco scaling either.

@dragun101 Just make T3 hydros, but leave T1 hydros unupgradeble to T3.

boost t3 artillery fire rate by 100% when adjacent to a hydro

Give a T1 hydro the same fire rate boost that a T3 power generator would give to T2 and T3 artillery. This might make placement more predictable though.

If Hydros somehow managed to be useable past the T1 stage, that would be neat.

Blacks Ops mod(s) has an upgradable variant which are nice, to be honest.

What would be cool though it's Hydros granting structures buffs to some random stats or group of stats. Like, perhaps next to a shield to increase Regen rate, increase HP, shield size, etc. Any stat.

I heard Jip mention something like that before with an Energy Storage adjecency on a different post. Seemed like a pretty awesome idea.

Something more to add some more complexity to some structures that aren't quite that interesting.

~Stryker

need to add some sort of meaningful choice. like have 2-3 types of hydro or 2-3 upgraides from witch you can only choose one.
maybe can add have Combat upgrade that adds HP and some PD on it, intel upgraide that adds cheaper radar with t2 radar-ish range, and maybe eco upgraide that adds adjacency but makes hydro explode.
with this choice of upgraides it might even make sense to not upgraide at all so that is like 4 choices

Give it an upgrade that adds 4 t1 AA turrets (one on each corner) and a shield generator that costs ~100 energy. Also give it +100 energy production and the equivalent of 4 energy storages. Basically an upgrade that makes it immune to t1 bombers and gives your com enough energy storage to overcharge anything.

@gabrilend

This except you can only choose one of these three benefits.

@ZLO
Hydros offering E-storage sounds like a neat idea...
Though it'll have to be a minimal amount otherwise there won't be a use for building E-Storage very early on to Overcharge or whatnot. Otherwise every map with a hydro would give the ACU OC capability immediately.

~ Stryker

The use of a hydro in the late T2 stage to rest of game is in its ajacency. Building your T2 air factories / shield / nuke / nuke defence / radar near it is absolutley worth it, as you cant use the space for anything else and its not explosive

how about a small build speed bonus for adjacent factories

could also increase death explosion damage enough to kill those adjacent factories

or maybe just to make it a more unique unit regardless of death damage of the hydro it should kill all adjacent factories regardless of hp as they are joined for the bonus

risk vs reward

@caliber said in Weekly Discussion #18 - Making Hydro more interesting:

it should kill all adjacent factories regardless of hp as they are joined for the bonus

If that's the case, then why would anyone ever use the adjacency? T1 Pgens would become a far better option.

how about a small build speed bonus for adjacent factories

Now that's actually a pretty neat idea. Though, one concern is that it would alter your resource management if it increases the adjacent factory's build speed by building units too quickly.

But I think the overall problem would remain, regardless...
The Hydro is still... useless at the T3 stage. Still useful during T2 but not as much.

So, in that case, I would still say that the hydro should be upgradable.

~ Stryker

@ComradeStryker its not necessary to upgrade a unit for it to have a greater effect later on in the game
also greating that upgrade feature i think would take a lot of work for the devs, this would also require adding extra units to the game which the community has previously expressed is unwanted

it is possible to just apply greater adjacency buff via tech level

25% for tech 1
35% for tech 2
45% for tech 3
ect

keeping it relevant for later game

i also like what @Nex said about buffing radars too, making it advantagous to have a farward hydro with a radar adjacent
hydro-radar buffs could be -50% energy run cost and +50% range

@caliber said in Weekly Discussion #18 - Making Hydro more interesting:

@ComradeStryker its not necessary to upgrade a unit for it to have a greater effect later on in the game

You make a good point - Labs are a great example of this... really good at raiding and, for a lack of a better word... less good later on during engagements baring ghettos and whatnot.

also greating that upgrade feature i think would take a lot of work for the devs, this would also require adding extra units to the game which the community has previously expressed is unwanted

Perhaps this is true, but these things can already be seen in other mods. I believe there is a Black Ops mod that allows the Hydro to be upgradable. How long that took, I'm not sure, but it shows it is possible.

it is possible to just apply greater adjacency buff via tech level

25% for tech 1
35% for tech 2
45% for tech 3
ect

keeping it relevant for later game

Greater adjacency in the late game would be quite an awesome idea, but wouldn't that make certain strategies even more powerful? IE: Rushing a strat? If its adjacency reduces a strat's cost by, your example, 45%, then it would make it so you wouldn't need as much energy income or energy storages to pull it off - Shortening the time it would take to launch it by a significant portion if you don't need to build another Pgen.

But... I guess that was one example. I'm sure it could be adjusted to better fit - If that's the case, than I'm all in for it, too.

i also like what @Nex said about buffing radars too, making it advantagous to have a farward hydro with a radar adjacent
hydro-radar buffs could be -50% energy run cost and +50% range

Now, that would be interesting. It would make hydro's a strategic location to install a radar - Limiting the need for many radars everywhere.

Perhaps this could also be done with shields, as well. Adjacency increasing any stat from shield HP to regen or whatnot. Again, making a hydro's location quite the location to strategize.

~ Stryker

I like the idea of adding either utility or defensiveness to the hydro. I think it's a mistake to add additional throughput, because it reduces the choices made by the player - from "do I need defense, utility, or neither" to "do I have enough to upgrade this right now because I gotta do it eventually" and to me that seems like a false choice.