Also i for example just learned from some stream, that you can offer a draw to the opposing team, which could also be a nice loading screen hint.

Also creating unit illusions isn't that far away from the game, as it's just what jamming does, just that it affects vision and is countered by radar not the other way around.
It's like Jamming -> See fake units when you have radar, but no vision
and illusions -> see fake units when you have vision but no radar
Just because that particular ability was not in the original game, doesn't mean it's a complete departure.

Wouldn't cloak be the logical fourth faction mechanic as stealth/jamming and cloak/fake units seems like the obvious counterparts for radar to vision counter-intel.

To make it possible to “fight” against the only thing I could think of was that the units wouldn’t show radar signatures if in the fog of war. I wasn’t sure if it was actually possible to have an icon show up in visual range but no gray dot show up in the fog of war, but that would be a great solution and would make you curious if maybe you just missed the units before your scout went over them.

Also having them always show blips when in vision would make them uncounterable, so the blips would need to disappear once you have them on radar.

@e33144211332424 i know that one, but even setting the target priority to engi doesn't prevent your tank from targeting the mex.
And once your tank sees a mex it will shoot at it, till it dies. even if 1 sec later the engi behind it gets into range.
So basically smaller raid parties, that don't expect drawn out fights will, ignore whatever target priority you set and simply shoot whatever is in range first.
You can modify the mod, to create exclusive priorities tho, which will prevent your tank from ever targeting anything that's not an engi. But that has it's own obvious drawbacks.
tl;dr: The mod only works if at the time anything is in range, the preferred target is also in range. If not the setting is irrelevant.

i think cloak could be much cooler on non-cybran units (as the combination with stealth is pretty strong).
So you would have something that's pretty strong (a unit that can't be targeted), but also easily countered by a radar.
This would create more of an intel fight by destroying enemy radars/scouts to keep cloak units hidden.

@spikeynoob aren't T1 units often more dps/mass than T2 Units?
frigs out dps destroyers (0.257 vs 0.147 incl. torps) and have more health/mass (7.6 vs 2.69).
Tanks(Mantis for cybran) also have more dps/mass (0.476 vs 0.345) on T1 than on T2(best dps/mass on heavy tank) and only have less health/mass than heavy tanks (4.821 vs 6.551), but these are significantly slower.
So in raw damage stats T1 outshines T2, but T2 brings more utility (range and stuff).
The Jesters dps/mass is still slightly better than its T2 counterpart (0.294 vs 0.222) which is 132% more for the Jester, 138% for the Mantis and 175% for the frig.
on health/mass the jester stands at 2.06 vs 3.08 which is less than the T2 gunship.
So the jester is stat wise worse than its T2 version compared to other (cybran) units.

@thomashiatt rotatable factories would be a fix for the fix.
So a factory with a larger build skirt, that has more rotations, to compensate for faction dependency.
But i believe the different placement possibilities for different factions are mostly a concern when making the build skirt larger in all directions, as the seraphim naval factory is horizontally mirrored (space for ships is on the right not on the left) So the building itself is placed differently inside the build skirt. I think vertically they are all the same, so this change shouldn't give one faction a noticable advantage.

@caliber I think the problems with introducing (many) new units, like different rotations are:

1. the UI would need to be developed to make one Unit in the build menu scroll through multiple actual units.
2. this will still clutter hotbuild hotkeys, as they already scroll through multiple units.

So i think if at all, only a minimal amount of units should be added. for example a 180 degree rotation, for building across cliffs or a smaller t1 only version, to allow spamming t1 factories, without taking up too much space.

With the vertical only size increase @Jip suggested, i think both are more or less unneeded, as it will only affect horizontal cliffs, to a degree, where you shouldn't build a naval factory there anyway, as the units would have problems to leave and when spamming factories you mostly just draw a horizontal line, which will take the same amount of space as the current factories.

The best option (in terms of possible usages, not ui) would be to have a factory, that only has one roll of point and only secures space for that. But that would need a 180° rotated version or somehow detect, that if one side is occupied your not allowed to build on the other as well. I mean would be cool, but probably also hard to do.

@spikeynoob aren't T1 units often more dps/mass than T2 Units?
frigs out dps destroyers (0.257 vs 0.147 incl. torps) and have more health/mass (7.6 vs 2.69).
Tanks(Mantis for cybran) also have more dps/mass (0.476 vs 0.345) on T1 than on T2(best dps/mass on heavy tank) and only have less health/mass than heavy tanks (4.821 vs 6.551), but these are significantly slower.
So in raw damage stats T1 outshines T2, but T2 brings more utility (range and stuff).
The Jesters dps/mass is still slightly better than its T2 counterpart (0.294 vs 0.222) which is 132% more for the Jester, 138% for the Mantis and 175% for the frig.
on health/mass the jester stands at 2.06 vs 3.08 which is less than the T2 gunship.
So the jester is stat wise worse than its T2 version compared to other (cybran) units.

@e33144211332424 i know that one, but even setting the target priority to engi doesn't prevent your tank from targeting the mex.
And once your tank sees a mex it will shoot at it, till it dies. even if 1 sec later the engi behind it gets into range.
So basically smaller raid parties, that don't expect drawn out fights will, ignore whatever target priority you set and simply shoot whatever is in range first.
You can modify the mod, to create exclusive priorities tho, which will prevent your tank from ever targeting anything that's not an engi. But that has it's own obvious drawbacks.
tl;dr: The mod only works if at the time anything is in range, the preferred target is also in range. If not the setting is irrelevant.

@veteranashe
@jip said in Adjust the build skirt of naval factories:

not without introducing a 2nd unit
As i understand it, you would need to have a different Unit for each possible rotation, which clumps up the UI.

We could also make a t1 only support factory, which has the same size as the current one with closer roll off point. So you could still spam t1 facs, which aren't oversized.

i think cloak could be much cooler on non-cybran units (as the combination with stealth is pretty strong).
So you would have something that's pretty strong (a unit that can't be targeted), but also easily countered by a radar.
This would create more of an intel fight by destroying enemy radars/scouts to keep cloak units hidden.

But you can not tell them to automatically retarget right?
So you would need to babysit your raiders an manually attack the engineers

@black_wriggler Oh so you meant for one storage.
didn't even know how much a mass fab produces, just assumed you were talking about the 16 in the table

@black_wriggler isn't that what the "table" already says?
0.03125 for size 16.
0.03 is for 12 so 0.03 * 12 = 0,36

@rowey Isn't next Saturday also this Saturday?
As it is the next Saturday from today, unless it's Saturday ofc.