Sera can't deal with enemy's guncom push on t2 without a bunker
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@ThomasHiatt (also it is just a fact that it takes more than one energy storage to kill and obsidian or ilshavoh with overcharge
dude, r u ok?
what r u smoking guys? or we play in different games?
watch that, i made a videotest SPECIAL for you https://youtu.be/HepP72K2HOMmaybe you was joking then its for @keyser
and i don't said that sera cannot counter t2 uef nanoguncom-landpush, i said that he cannot do it without bunkerbuilding or totally won air
if you guys gonna test it you also will see it. Give both players 3 t2 pgens, 1e storage, guns
nano for uef
and t2 army for both players (total mass equal) (if you want - give some upgrades to sera com instead of ilshas, just keep mass count equal)
in this scenario sera loses in 100% cases, just after few OCes from UEF com
uef com can just go, OC, and retreat until enough ilshas are dead. Sera com will shoot shields and got damaged by gatlings if tries the same -
even with 2nd regen aura ilshas has only 3000 HP and enemy can oneshot them with just 1e storage
and sorry, sera can't do anything with that, he has no units with 30+ range on t2 (except MML), no mobile shields, so build a bunker or suck. Nice balance tho. -
Solutions:
-Get your own gun, potentially with nano
-Rush T3 land for sniper bots, they're basically guncom hard counters
-Sera T2 air has the highest damage bombers. If the ACU is dodging bombs it isn't advancing as fast
-Sera has the most flak resistant T2 gunships
-Use zthuees to kill them during the upgrade
-First regen field effectively gives T1 tanks 33% more HP vs gun ACUI'm sure there are plenty of others, but those are a few examples
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@Deribus said in Sera can't deal with enemy's guncom push on t2 without a bunker:
Solutions:
-Get your own gun, potentially with nano
-Rush T3 land for sniper bots, they're basically guncom hard counters
-Sera T2 air has the highest damage bombers. If the ACU is dodging bombs it isn't advancing as fast
-Sera has the most flak resistant T2 gunships
-Use zthuees to kill them during the upgrade
-First regen field effectively gives T1 tanks 33% more HP vs gun ACUI'm sure there are plenty of others, but those are a few examples
1)gun is no solution, because you can't OC his units as him. They're shielded. Yours - not.
2)t3 factory is not a thing that you can rush fast enough to play t3 units on mid t2 stage. If you're going to t3 that fast - you will have no t2 spam at all, and you dead again (check it's cost and buildtime)
3)to play t2 bombers you should win the air first. I consider equal situation. Nothas can't win a fight vs t1 interseptors on equal mass, so if enemy has air spam on equal mass - nothas gonna drop 1 bomb, and then air fight happens, and you loses air.
4) same as 3
5) ridicolous. zthuees gonna die from him spam. arty cannot fight vs tanks on early game. And he's gonna upgrade on his territorry, not on my base
6) t1 spam is uselles against his t2 spam. (And t1 field effectively gives T1 tanks 0% more HP vs UEF 200dmg. gun)any other?
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@ETFreeman You talk about equal mass, but if your opponent has gun, mobile shields, and T2 units while you don't, and you have equal mass, you by definition have the extra mass to spend on these projects.
If you're equally matched except the enemy has gun and many more T2 units, then you've lost due to an eco and unit disadvantage, not gun.
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he has gun, nanoregen and t2 spam. I have gun and spam on equal mass as his nanoregen+his army
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nothas actually can do some job if my army has few mobile flaks
but then i need t2 land + t2 air, while enemy can focus only on t2 land
need to think about that
but still quite disappointing that a fraction which must be strong at t2 has to go t2 air just because has no any land/com overcharge counter
will continue tomorrow maybe. 4 am for me... -
How to win as Seraphim vs UEF considering the positions are equal and both of you switch to t2 land:
you get T2 + Gun while UEF ACU gets Nano + Gun.
You send your army NOT to your acu but to other frontline where enemy doesn't have ACU either and you abuse the fact that your army is very strong on t2. If enemy acu wants to push you build 1 t2 pd and stand in front of it so that enemy ACU can't kill it. After a while you get 3rd t3 pgen and you can go nano yourself, switch to t3 (UEF switches to t3 as well) and then your ACU + t3 unit composition (Siege tanks, Shield + Snipers) are much better if micro'ed correctly so you can push and win the game by slowly killing his expansions and taking good trades.Now unless you can provide some specific questions, or situations please stop posting so much cause I feel like you ignore other posts and just try to convince everyone of your truth (spoiler alert it's not like that and TOP 10 players are telling you that) and If that's the case just go somewhere else because then this discussion is pointless.
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I'm wondering if OP considers Cybran better in this situation.
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@Tagada said in Sera can't deal with enemy's guncom push on t2 without a bunker:
build 1 t2 pd
and that's exactly what i'm talking about, have to build pds to counter
and then must defend pds from missiles, for example, and that's how bunker is born
just spending mass on something that can't even move, while enemy can make something more useful and then just go another way (depends on the map, yes), forcing you to wasting more mass (more pds) i guess? -
Can you even read?
"You send your army NOT to your acu but to other frontline where enemy doesn't have ACU either and you abuse the fact that your army is very strong on t2. If enemy acu wants to push you build 1 t2 pd and stand in front of it so that enemy ACU can't kill it." -
I think op is right and sera t2 should be considered t1.5
Ilshies are just too weak compared to other t2 units and a guncom completely devalidates them. -
He is correct that Seraphim is quite weak in the T2 stage, but I don't think it is any worse than Cybran (which everyone thinks is OP). It is more an issue of UEF being too strong on the T2 stage since they get mobile shields + mongoose, pillars, and a very strong ACU all at the same stage of the game. Similar issue with Aeon.
I think mobile shields need to be nerfed in some way. They could be made to die when the shield bubble is overcharged, which there is already a PR for on GitHub. Another potential addition to this would be to give them a death weapon that activates when they are hit with overcharge, or other weapon that deals large overkill damage, so that they damage nearby units when they die. As if the shield was being overloaded by this additional damage or whatever.
I admit I was incorrect about it taking more than one energy storage to kill those units and I should be banned for spreading this misinformation. I was confused since it does take more than the minimum required overcharge energy to kill them and I mistakenly believed keyser knew what he was talking about.
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Is there a T2 units more tanky than Ilsha, so that you actually need 2 storages to kill it? Because I made a loading tip based on this information "To kill with a single overcharge, you need 1 energy storage for T1 units, up to 2 for T2, and up to 4 for T3". Seems I'll have to change it.
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@ETFreeman said in Sera can't deal with enemy's guncom push on t2 without a bunker:
if sera makes t1 spam - he loses, because t1 spam loses against enemy t2 spam
thanks, I didn't know this.
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@FemtoZetta yes, when he said that it wasn't the case; i tested again.
This is very weird because i remember testing back at the time when i wrote this.
Seems that T1/T2/loya/titan requires 1 OC; othuums/harbi requires 2, and percy/brick requires 3
I'm very confused because this doesn't match at all previous results. -
@keyser said in Sera can't deal with enemy's guncom push on t2 without a bunker:
obsdian cost as much as ilshies. Also rhino are pretty close in term of cost (300 vs 360).
This is not true, Obsidian cosť 360mass and drain 10energy = 360+37,5 = 397,5 mass (for power plant).
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I've never seen anyone have to make T1 pgens at T2 for fucking 10 energy drain from Obsidians lol
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@FemtoZetta said in Sera can't deal with enemy's guncom push on t2 without a bunker:
I've never seen anyone have to make T1 pgens at T2 for fucking 10 energy drain from Obsidians lol
Then its +24mass for T2 Pgen. = 384m
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ithilis is such a pro that he doesn't waste power
