Cheating in SupcomFA
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Speed, you calling SCTA not a decent mod! /SarcasmEmojiThatDoesn'tExist
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Psions, what UI mods do you see as being cheating?
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What you suggest is the equivalent of a no-cd protection. And these get hacked, even without being open source.
But the game files are open source and so is the client. We can spend 100 hours in building a solution, and it takes like 1 hour to remove it again. -
Would it be possible to increase the volume of acu teleport sound, or add a ping to the teleport in and teleport out animation and / or change the animation to a crossmark that covers a large area? Asking for a friend.
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No. Just git gut scrub.
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Joining in here to support Speed2 - you can quite literally add in files to the base game that hook into files with no way to detect their changes if these changes are UI-related. And if you can detect them then it is some lua code that is doing the detecting, which can be easily removed too.
To hook into (hurr) your example on snipe warnings: correct me if I am wrong but as far as I can see you cannot make such a system. You can see what the UI can access from the engine at:
Searching for units in the sim (as your post suggests) is not part of that.
You can find all kinds of (interesting) UI capabilities when inspecting files in /lua/ui, of which some (indirectly) do influence the sim - such as pausing units or changing the priorities of units.
I do agree that there should be a discussion on whether we make some of the UI mods more commonly known, such as Advanced Target Priorities (ATP) (that even without CPU sniping can still have a major impact). More commonly known in terms of: users get prompted for the existence of the mods on their first launch of the client, there is some tutorial / guide that tells these mods exist and that gets prompted on the first launch or they are automatically downloaded from the vault on your first launch so that if you ever scroll through the list of mods, you'll see them in there.
I'm not sure how applicable this is (and how desirable), but I think the existence of these type of UI mods should be communicated somehow. Not knowing about / not using a UI mod like ATP does give you a distinct disadvantage in my opinion, which can feel unfair.
A work of art is never finished, merely abandoned
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If it is felt that advanced target priorities is good for new players, then it gets integrated.
If it is felt that it isn't, then it stays as a mod.
Introducing new players to it as a ui mod defeats the whole purpose of it being separate. Now you give focus to this UI mod as something new players need to get better, when really it couldn't be a worse thing to focus on. It's like worrying about the title of your book when you can't even string two coherent thoughts together.
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@Jip keyser had a thread on the old forums about ui mods, having something like that in the new ones and maybe as a side link on the news in the client might be enough to let everyone know about them?
On that note, about the ATP that was integrated into FAF some time ago (the infamous snipe mode), is there any specific documentation on how the target priorities actually change when it is enabled?
Last time I tried to look for that I just got utterly lost.
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@FtxCommando: I absolutely agree that it is not the place to start learning the game and it is not what I intended to say but I get how you can read that out of it. I just think players should be informed that these mods exist at some point in some manner. It is hard to deny that these UI mods give you a distinct advantage in certain situations, therefore notifying players is only fair.
@deletethis: That is pretty much what I mean, but then more easy to find!
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@Jip said in Cheating in SupcomFA:
@deletethis: That is pretty much what I mean, but then more easy to find!
A news post was made for that thread. It's now in the pinned news post of the news hub. We can always improve it and try to display it in a better way (automatic pm at 100 games or something similar), but it don't have a lot of idea on how to display that kind of stuff in a better way.
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You're right - it is in there! Well, then I'm all good. It is there for those that care. A PM of some kind would be good too - to show people there's more than they think there is.
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It seems to make a lot of sense if you received a pm with some handy links upon reaching some rating threshold for the first time. e.g., "Congratulations on reaching 800 rating for the first time! Here's some UI mods that players around your rating find helpful" with a link to chef Keyser's UI recipe. That way you don't overwhelm beginners but still keep players informed.
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I think that maybe a guide/article integrated into client's Tutorial tab would be an end goal but for now a link for forum posts is enough.
If I would make such a guide i would probably split it into 3
parts:
Essential uI mods:
SCB (after it's fixed)
Advanced reclaim view
Additional camera stuff; UI party
Basic ui mods:
Spread move
I don't have more ideas
Advanced ui mods:
ATP
Selection deprioritization -
About the pm at X rating thing, I would've personally been furious to get such a message only after playing quite many games to reach the rating limit. I would've reacted along the lines of "so now you tell me these helpful UI mods exist?". I'd rather start playing with the proper tools from the get go than learn about them later on. Why not just have it as a FAQ post or something which would be decently visible to new and old players.
Similarly the effort to learn hotkeys was probably harder later on instead of from the start.
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Tbh I feel like this discussion is kinda pointless considering the FAF guide for newbies already have UI mods mentioned.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/13S4nBDfcBK4WmFtykXGKNmvIPe9L2nbiriISpHNgE4U/edit -
@Jip eco overlay mods already do this to search for engineer units and their current expenditure no?
If FAF doesn't even have a basic implementation to check if everyone is running on the same version, and is not capable of locking ui implemented mods then what is the point of a blacklist?
Also to the rest, basing balanced fair gameplay on people downloading external 3rd party mods to "enhance" their gameplay, is not a healthy way of running a game in any fair manner. Its merely people giving up and accepting that there are cheats and just telling other people to cheat to.
Not everyone will cheat, and this leads to an imbalance in the community. If these mods are so "essential" they should be in the base game and not a 3rd party download, even if you can get it from the vault.
Could you imagine an FPS game, that tells me to install aimbot and auto recoil mods?
And about FAQ? Why would those who read guides get a massive advantage merely from knowing that you can openly use cheats in the game. When I was a noob coming from Steam Supcom, did I read documentation and forum posts? No, because I had a basic understanding of the game. Why would I even know that there are mods that will auto manage my eco for me, auto micro my bombers for me, and heck even recently, re-alter the basic way in which the sim of my units function so that they prioritise ACU.
This simply doesn't get discussed, because it opens a can of worms that a minority in the community don't want to open and this leads to a very hazy grey area in policy, where anything goes until it doesn't and even then the response is to just ignore moderators and load it from base game instead of client?
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Comparing UI mods to aimbots is quite a stretch. Also not every player wants every UI mod, it is like a breakfast buffet, you pick what you want and is working for you. UI mods in the hands of inexperienced players can also have more detrimental effects to their gameplay than positive.
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@PsionsThis is what you can access from the UI side of the game:
Among others, this includes:
- GetIdleEngineers()
Which is also used to make a button on the right side of the screen on which you can click to move to some idle engineer.
- UISelectionByCategory(expression, addToCurSel, inViewFrustum, nearestToMouse, mustBeIdle)
Which is a bit on the edge of things that is possible but never the less it can only select your own units. The 'snipe warning system' you mention is just not possible through a UI mod.
What a UI mod does is interpreting the data from the simulation. In turn, the UI side can send some commands back (such as 'Pause' and 'Stop', which are the only commands that work) or display information in some UI (which is the UI that you are looking at)
Comparing this to an aim bot is a bit of a stretch, but I do understand some UI mods can provide significant advantages, such as ATP.
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@Psions are people still cheating in FA?
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@Giebmasse We literally have an aimbot "ui" mod. (Priority mod)
Also a recoil macro is no different from a bomber micro or auto eco management. Both are the input of a rapid succession of commands that the player without assistance is otherwise not capable of doing within that time frame.
