Change the handling of Reports - When is a report valid?
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@Nuggets said in Change the handling of Reports - When is a report valid?:
Regarding the “just don’t do X and you won’t get banned” argument — I get it. But that doesn’t address whether X should actually be bannable in a specific context. That’s the discussion I hoped to have: not about misrepresenting moderators or sowing drama, but about refining where, when, and why enforcement kicks in.
This desire to have the context come into play will almost certainly cause more issues that it fixes. Over the last two years almost the moderation team has been working to remove contextual cases from the rules. This was because this directly lead to the situations where moderators had to judge the game state. And that just leads to endless back and forth and interpretations. Then the reason they sought to clarify and remove context was because of complaints from the community around lack of clarity.
It is better that the rules are very clear cut and free from interpretation so that everyone knows what to expect when they report and handle reports. I think the desire to add ambiguity back based on game state or how people were feeling at the time will just lead to a worse situation overall with regards to moderation.
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I do not currently have the time to fully read this thread. Eventually I will. For now I just want to remind everyone that we are real humans with jobs, families, and lives. For me this has meant I have been unable to keep up with the amount of work some of our more active mods put in. But even our most active mods have these other commitments. My point when discussing how rules should be enforced, the amount of time and effort involved in making a ruling is incredibly important. If that time and effort becomes too high than reports will begin to pile up and pretty soon any 1100 and base ctrl k in a won game without any recourse. In my mind the blanket ban on base ctrl k is a small price to pray in order to help keep the moderation machine going. Ill write something longer whenever i have time. This is all my opinion and not an official view of the mod team.
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@magge said in Change the handling of Reports - When is a report valid?:
Allowing it - even when both parties agree - will normalize rule-breaking- behavior and opens the door for widespread abuse when knowledge about it will actively spread around.
If the knowledge doesn't spread, there will also be no awareness among the victims of the exploit and hence a lower chance of it getting reported.
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@SpikeyNoob said in Change the handling of Reports - When is a report valid?:
In my mind the blanket ban on base ctrl k
So no exceptions?
Especially because the cop-out of "it was no Full share anyway" is done away with with union control where people can quit without the base blowing up.
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@jcvjcvjcvjcv I am not sure what you mean. My post is in reference to attempting to bypass fullshare using base ctrl k
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I want to summarize / respond to some things I’ve seen throughout this thread.
The moderators often justify strict rule enforcement with statements like "By using FAF services, you agree to follow FAF rules" or lean on technicalities like "security through obscurity" to explain why things like exploits cannot even be shown. But this approach leads to situations where enforcement becomes detached from common sense. For example:
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A fully consensual 1v1 game, with no harm done to anyone, can still lead to a ban just because it was streamed.
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A player can get banned for using an exploit in a private game — even when no participant was negatively affected — simply because a third party decides to report it.
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A team that agrees a game is over can still get punished if someone Ctrl-Ks their base instead of using recall — even though the result is functionally the same.
While I do think parts of the rule wording could be improved, my main point is that the core problem is how and when the rules are applied. There is no, or at the very least, very little room for context.
Gieb said, "We've had people trawling through reports just trying to cause problems for another user, this is easily spotted and dealt with accordingly."Clearly not, because in my case, someone who wasn’t involved in the game went into my replays, reported an exploit in a private game, and I was banned — even though the game was fully consensual (everyone was aware of what was happening). Yes, it was streamed, but the fact that someone could just look into my replays and report it proves this isn’t “dealt with accordingly” as claimed.
Not to point fingers, but the person who told me to do it / gave me the idea probably didn't get a warning!On top of that, previous bans for the same offense aren’t taken into account when issuing new ones, which further shows that context and history are often ignored in enforcement. I do not mean penalties, this is, ofc, included, but rather the reasoning or context.
I want to see the focus shift away from blanket enforcement and move toward reasonable enforcement, where context and the actual impact of an action are meaningfully considered.
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The whole issue of "rules" "reporting" and "banning" is out of control. It is arbitrary and inconsistent, and the punishments don’t make sense. Despite being a small and dying community, admins still hand out harsh punishments for even minor mistakes, which is baffling.
It’s no surprise that longtime players eventually get fed up and leave for other games.
The moderators’ behavior, often seen as arrogant, contributes to a negative atmosphere and the shrinking player base. They don’t seem to realize this is not YouTube or Instagram, but a small, isolated platform where more freedom of expression should be allowed.
There are rules about game mechanics, player behavior, and how we treat each other. FAF provide tools like mute or ignore, letting players control their experience without banning others. For what did u guys implemented this tools? This makes banning mostly unnecessary.
Banning also isn’t a punichment anymore since there is GAF
Let the people sideline the toxic and abusing player by them self.
In short, banning here is excessive and counterproductive. It frustrates players and damages the community. But as we all know, discussions about this usually fail because of the admins’ and moderators’ egos.
BTW: die biggest Problem FAF had since years now is the DDOS Attack wich one resulted out of senceless banning
Enjoy yourselves.
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@HOSCHMOSCH said in Change the handling of Reports - When is a report valid?:
BTW: die biggest Problem FAF had since years now is the DDOS Attack wich one resulted out of senceless banning
In both cases people were repeatedly warned and had short time bans long before it escalate to infinite bans.
Imagine FAF were a restaurant and customers repeatedly get drunk and start harassing other peoples you must have the ability to throw them out forever. But in the modern world it is possible for the affected customers to burn down the restaurant as a "countermeasure" without fearing consequences. If we resign here and give in we can completely give up all rules and let it become wild west again.
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If you lack the technical ability to deal with someone who is clearly capable of significantly disrupting the platform, then you should reconsider throwing around infinity bans. What you're doing is punishing everyone else for a situation that arose from a combination of arrogance, wrong priorities, and incompetence.
If FAF is a restaurant, then you should only throw people out if you're actually capable of locking the door afterward.
And another thing: an infinity ban? What exactly has to happen to justify such a draconian punishment — one so extreme you don’t even see it in most other games? It reeks of desperation and poor judgment.
tell us
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@HOSCHMOSCH You have made your negative views about FAF moderation and administration repeatedly clear, but continuing to derail discussions with inflammatory, hostile, and accusatory posts helps no one - it only further proves why moderation is necessary. If you genuinely want change, engage constructively and respectfully, please.
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I wasn’t even going to call you out by name, but let’s face it — you, with your wannabe authoritarian, whip-wielding approach, are the perfect example of what everyone here is fed up with. You really think anyone’s going to just shut up and swallow their opinion just because you’re hovering your cursor over the ban button? Sorry if I’m shattering your illusion — or rather, your delusion.
If YOU genuinely want change just step back. And spare me the accusation of not wanting to contribute contructivly. I did offer — once.
now do your thing by closing, banning, deleting.
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@HOSCHMOSCH said in Change the handling of Reports - When is a report valid?:
are the perfect example of what everyone here is fed up with
'everyone' as in - a few individuals of the total player base. There's no data that backup your claims that a significant chunk of the player base is frustrated by the current moderation policies/rules.
@HOSCHMOSCH said in Change the handling of Reports - When is a report valid?:
They don’t seem to realize this is not YouTube or Instagram, but a small, isolated platform where more freedom of expression should be allowed.
There's no such thing as 'freedom of expression' on any platform. You have freedom of expression in your private digital or physical life. For example, you're free to talk whatever on your own Discord server. And you're free to talk about whatever in your own living room. But the moment you enter a public place you're expected to behave within the boundaries set by that public place. Being online on digital platforms may feel different because it's anonymous. But it's really not that different. There are still boundaries, and for good reason.
Our boundaries are described by the moderation policies/rules. And to some extend by the contributing guidelines. These state that (as an example) casual jokes relying on hate of jews, racism, swearing that is totally out of proportion or really anything else that resembles harassment as depicted by the rules.
It's a small number of vocal players that choose to walk on the line of the current moderation policies/rules intentionally. Or to cross it casually. Either is unnecessary, but what matters is that it is a choice. A choice made by an individual. You don't have to walk or cross the line. In my opinion, choosing to walk on or cross the line says more about the individual then about moderation policies/rules. And it's even less about the moderators themselves, as they're just applying the policies/rules as agreed upon.
To quote myself:
said in Change the handling of Reports - When is a report valid?:
Let me be quite clear: if it were up to me I would have banned some individuals of this community a long time ago. No appeal process possible. Just get out, do whatever you're doing somewhere else.
So yes, be constructive or do me a favor and just go and do something else. Anywhere really but to be here.
And once you're ready to be constructive - fight the rules. Not the people enforcing them. And certainly not the server administrators that enable us to play FAForever despite of the conscious choices of some individuals out there to disrupt the infrastructure of some niche, fan-made project out of spite.
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Freedom of expression doesn’t stop at your living room door. It's not just a private right – it's meant to protect speech in public discourse too, especially online. We are not a Country and not bounded to a country specific set of rules. Wich means its mostly up to you to set the rules.
Platforms like this aren’t town squares, they’re private corporations. Comparing them to “public places” is misleading . That’s a power imbalance, not moderation. Für example: what does the Ban-Reason "Offensive Language" means ? and what is the Punishment 7 Days ? Did someone hurt the feels of someone ? or was he offended by facst ?
Moderators often mirror the worst of woke culture. Acting like a moral elite, they police language obsessively while ignoring context, nuance, or intent. The result? A performative, punitive atmosphere where the loudest outrage wins. Rules are broken constantly only reported cases are punished. Enforcement is reactive, not consistent. It's not about principles, it's about public image.
@Jip said in Change the handling of Reports - When is a report valid?:
'everyone' as in - a few individuals of the total player base. There's no data that backup your claims that a significant chunk of the player base is frustrated by the current moderation policies/rules.
Users don’t speak freely because the system punishes friction, not actual harm. You go undercover and talk to ppl what they think of the Mods. You will be suprised. You dont even habe to make that effort. Just check that forum. I would say thats a lot of a few "individuals". Not mention the People who read that and start giving a shit about contribut to that discussion.
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Post your last 10 replay IDS
If you cant quit being a fkn mod and get a life, You fkn idiots with rules and crap when you dont play is crazy! You wanna make rules for games you dont play why its fkn sad!
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this is really sad we let this crap affect FAF
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@HOSCHMOSCH IDIOTS That dont play the game offer there services then act like they boss
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The fact the dude above is banned after stating the above, genuinely concerns me with Faf moderation
Ras Boi's save lives.
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To keep things on track, summary of the major key points:
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Concerns were raised about core rules, e.g. CTRL+K usage and regarding exploits and when their report should be valid or not in general.
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@Nuggets is working on a draft about a formal proposal to improve clarity and fairness in this area
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A lot of opinions were shared, but the discussion has not resulted in a resolution to the concerns raised by OP and other users who share a similar opinion.
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As response, @Tagada announced that he will open in the future a thread in the Association section for discussing the rules in question, and exploring for possible adjustments.
@NOC The user is not banned from playing FAF. Just a short read-only period to encourage more respectful communication in the forum.
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@NOC The user got a temporary ban from the forum for another thread where they verbally abused the moderation team, not for these comments above.
"Design is an iterative process. The required number of iterations is one more than the number you have currently done. This is true at any point in time."
See all my projects:
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Dont worry all:
This is the rating of the man who is judging whether a 2k elo game is lost when a player leaves to ban them:
The man has played only survival games for his last 100 games.
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