Balance Patch 3750 - Feedback

@xayo said in Balance Patch 3750 - Feedback:

I got nuked just yesterday after a corsair hit-squad suicided on my smd. That nuke killed 56k mass, without leaving any reclaim. The nuke still has great value. Just instead of trying to overwhelm the opponents ability to defend with SMDs by rushing more nukes quicker, you now have to integrate this strategy with other tools.

Aeon frig felt great the first time I used it. But I am afraid with some micro practice this might get very oppressive.

I know you play high ranked games but still most of u rely on single smd which is always weak point. noob gappers of 1000+ rating does not do mistakes other 2k players do every time - this is quite funny.
Your own mistakes not a reason to high nerf of nukes. They became almost obsolete after the patch. I could barely use them - there is almost no point to do land nukes at least.

You playing dual gap no longer able to do 1 strat of min 15 nuke is not a reason to revert nerf.

@waffelznoob In latest balance patch, the acceleration/deceleration and turn rate of the engi was changed for better pathfinding. This may also help make dodging bombers easier as they move better.

@t_r_u_putin said in Balance Patch 3750 - Feedback:

noob gappers of 1000+ rating does not do mistakes other 2k players do every time - this is quite funny.

there is a reason gappers don't do those kinds of mistakes - because there is little to nothing else for them to think about during the game, unlike on real maps

at this point I think gaps should use their own "balance" mod that is designed around that particular map because no one except gappers wants the game to be balanced around gap, afaik it is possible for a sim mod to be made ranked?

Nukes in general should only be killing main bases assuming gross misplay from enemy. That’s healthy. It’s like 25k mass for the first sml and nuke. 25k mass is not total base destruction + reclaim removal levels of mass when t3 arty does nothing as immediately painful to bases for triple the mass.

Nukes should be operating as strategic denial of pushes or nuking lower priority 20-40k mass targets. That’s healthy.

Or you hold onto it as a potential win condition, same as holding onto t4 as a push win condition.

Operating as some sort of skillcheck on whether you realize the 3rd t3 structure you’re supposed to build is an smd is only normalized and expected on dual gap and in turn only a healthy interplay on dual gap because there is zero room to nuke anything of value beyond the main bases. In actual games, there are like 8 viable targets to nuke with your first nuke and the biggest skill aspect is deciding which of the 8 is the most ridiculous return on your investment.

Big fan of the engi changes, would honestly like to see the same treatment given to ACUs. It is absolutely infuriating to be fighting with your ACU, telling it to move right and it stubs its toe on a tree and turns left instead. ACUs feel so incredibly unresponsive and like giving them orders is subject to RNG.

@t_r_u_putin i was his mirror in the discussed game. He was front, his whole team could have smds and his smd dying would still result in his base being lost. Honestly just so stupid to act like gap players are good at the game.

@ftxcommando What about making SMDs a bit cheaper to build/load, but remove the "strategic launch detected" sound?

Then nukes would be less effective at killing main bases or sniping ACUs but they'd be better at killing armies.

I don't really like it because the sound makes it possible for you to scout the nuke early and see where it is going to then split an army in that direction. It has risk mitigation and counterplay beyond just creeping smds which is kinda slow and residentsleeper gameplay.

@arma473 said in Balance Patch 3750 - Feedback:

What about making SMDs a bit cheaper to build/load, but remove the "strategic launch detected" sound?

imo it shouldn't play the sound unless you have intel over the nuke when it launched, and only once it reaches "space" layer, instead of as soon as it leaves launcher, unless it is a friendly nuke in which case you get notified on launch immediately of course, because it is a "how are you supposed to know this" scenario equal to the bugged building icons you have no intel over revealing that enemy upgraded/destroyed them because for some reason they change color

Then nukes would be less effective at killing main bases or sniping ACUs but they'd be better at killing armies.

I already suggested elsewhere that nuke submarines should be able to build cheaper short range nukes that do lower but still significant damage, to fill in role of nuking smaller stuff that wouldn't pay for the cost of the launcher nuke, instead of just being a worse but mobile nuke launcher

1)what about Atlantis? The Balance Team really thinking that is cool Experimental unit? Are you sure?
2)And how about T4 shields? It's good mind i think... why you rejecting it?
3)And one else... If you want to do T2-period more usable then you can up the cost to upgrade T3, isn't it? ... you now... T2-generator now is so rarely thing) Like good days in my life) Becouse t3-period are very close... may you may think about cost up for t2-t3 changeperiod?

it's not a critic) just questions) Thanks for your work guys)

In Supreme Commander 2, shields soak up nuke damage so a base with a lot of shielding would take minimal damage from a nuke. I am not saying this would be a good change (it would be a bad change) but it is an option to increase counterplay of nukes while maintaining their pre-patch power level.

why nerf SR? WTF are you doing, hive nerfed, arty nerfed(cybran to much).loyalist cant conter billy nuke OMG!!!!!!!!! the only good nerf is exodus class and bulwark! THIS 2 were so strong , to much strong,

why nerf cybran frigate range, it was good?

Haven't played it yet but after reading the CL it seems like these changes will take a slight adjustment but will favor a more balanced and strategic battle when playing mapgen/openworld maps, tmm and ladder which to me is perfect because I am sick of how quick these games can turn into astro/gap type rounds ruining a beautiful mapgen map in the process. Seems more and more people just turtle hard and its arty/nuke spam in no time which is just boring.

I can see how all the astro-thermo-gappers are going to have to really change their tactics now and will have no idea how to play FAF anymore and that to me is a good thing. Those types will make the adjustment and find a way to play sim city again while the rest of us enjoy a more pure and authentic FAF experience.

Thankyou very much for all the work DEV team and anyone else who helps keep this ship sailing.

@accidental_aeon said in Balance Patch 3750 - Feedback:

In Supreme Commander 2, shields soak up nuke damage so a base with a lot of shielding would take minimal damage from a nuke.

nukes should destroy everything when they land like they do, this is one of only games that properly shows them as they are supposed to be, stop ruining what makes the game good for easy and lazy balancing

@lord_asmodeus said in Balance Patch 3750 - Feedback:

You playing dual gap no longer able to do 1 strat of min 15 nuke is not a reason to revert nerf.

I am playing different maps. dual gap is the most played map only. Talking like you are know something more about the game looks strange. you are deaf to what experienced players say. I could add one more day of playing FAF showed me zero nukes even on dual gap. I didnt have SMD for 25 mins and nobody even tryed to build a nuke lol. Nukes are dropped off the game completely. VERY BALANCED, VERY HEALTHY gameplay now (NOT!)

@t_r_u_putin dude noone cares about dual gap meta, if you do, go create dual gap rebalance mod or smth. Also i dont really understand why do you think nukes should be built with sole purpose of killing base, and if they dont - its unhealthy smh. Like its really stupid if nukes are just instawin if you didnt build smd in time AND they have great utility even when you built them. Not to mention that on many maps you need multiple (3+) smds to cover everything that will lose you game if nuked, which cost more money than building nuke. And then nuke kills like 4-5 t3 mexes/naval bp/land army/naval group. How is it balanced in your eyes?

@noble_ice The Soul Ripper wasn't simply nerfed (except for the E cost). It simply got reworked in a way that should allow players to build them a bit earlier and better emphasize its role as a value over time unit instead of having immediate game ending damage potential like ahwassa.

If you look at the changes you will see it got buffed relative to its mass cost.

@t_r_u_putin said in Balance Patch 3750 - Feedback:

@lord_asmodeus said in Balance Patch 3750 - Feedback:

You playing dual gap no longer able to do 1 strat of min 15 nuke is not a reason to revert nerf.

I am playing different maps. dual gap is the most played map only. Talking like you are know something more about the game looks strange. you are deaf to what experienced players say. I could add one more day of playing FAF showed me zero nukes even on dual gap. I didnt have SMD for 25 mins and nobody even tryed to build a nuke lol. Nukes are dropped off the game completely. VERY BALANCED, VERY HEALTHY gameplay now (NOT!)

So why do you always respond to these posts and not mine talking about different maps? Why are nukes bad on sentons/lena river/metir/skadi/ditch with this change for example?

Half the reason maps with bases so close together are so popular at lower levels is precisely because things (nukes being one example) are insanely efficient at abusing a singular point of failure on the maps I mentioned. You can’t have 3 players fail to make 1 SMD resulting in a nuke killing them, these maps have, at best, 2 players protected by an SMD in a 4v4 or 5v5. And that front SMD would have to be built by a player that has a responsibility of making decent early game spam which is typically infeasible and so often the back player makes their own SMD regardless. Or transports decent engie spam to the front player to build it there.

And again, that’s a game winning nuke. A nuke on sentons island will always be efficient and possible because building an SMD there is silly.

@tagada I think the soul ripper changes are a lot more power-neutral than they initially seem. Once you add in the extra mass cost/build time needed for the additional power infrastructure I would expect the overall mass cost to be about the same. The decrease in build time in combination with the E-cost increase has roughly (I don't have a replay to check the exact math) doubled the power drain from every engineer constructing the unit.