Feedback on Cybran vs Uef ground only
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A friend and I have a argument and I would like to hear community feedback. When it comes to Cybran vs. UEF ONLY ground units who has the edge? How balanced is the match? I say it's basically balanced while he says its lopsided in cybrans favorite.
Thoughts?
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mobile shields = better land
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In 1v1? Early com upgrades are better on UEF. Shields give huge advantage. T3 land is far better on UEF.
But Cybran can be quite good against new players who do not scout and dont "feel" yet the unit movements. I have seen an opponent walk his com alone into my stealthed t2 army, because he had not scouted, and thought that I had nothing there.
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Stealth is definitely a very powerful tool in the Cybran's toolkit if you remove air scouts, but yeah shields are always good. I think overall they balance each other.
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My opinion with even eco and production.
t1 is pretty even
t2 favors UEF: pillars and shields > rhino and stealth.
t3 favors UEF even more: Percival > brick, titan > loyalist.
ACU favors UEF most of the time. -
If you are playing super late game, it all depends on where you have omni.
With no Omni, Cybran is better, with stealthed bricks and megas.
With Omni fatty just kites everything to death and percys mop up the rest.If you aren't allowed radar except for land scouts, then Cybran wins, stealthed megas will waste everything before the UEF gets vision to shoot.
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@chenbro101 This, UEF steamrolls 99% of the time, stealth doesnt mean much in the current game and I prefer shields over not being seen by radar lol, makes ACU waaaaay better
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@javi said in Feedback on Cybran vs Uef ground only:
@chenbro101 This, UEF steamrolls 99% of the time,
This thread is crazy. Cybran vs UEF is usually even overall but it’s map dependent. On a 5x5 UEF has an edge but on 10x10 Cybran definitely has the advantage. Cybran has the better LAB so it can more easily take out opposing mech marines and then kill initial expanding engies. Mantis is way faster so it can do run bys of eco as well as choose engagements and fight only when it has numerical advantage. Both of these get stronger the larger and more open the map is. So you have the advantage at T1 meaning you can get better map control and economy scaling. And at T2 Rhino + Medusa will actually beat Pillar+ Parashield if you use the range advantage to kite. If they add Mongoose then add Deceiver and Hoplite and make sure to shoot down scouts. The only catch is to make sure to avoid enemy guncom because OC eats expensive tanky Rhinos. Also UEF gun is technically the worst since it doubles damage not fire rate, meaning there is overkill and missed shots lose more dps. So if you zig zag Mantis you can hamper it. ACU is basically the slowest land unit in the game so just play around it until you have done critical amount of damage with your faster stronger mobile units.
Also Viper is the only MML that can do its job so you can deal with UEF firebases.
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UEFbrain:
"cybran has the better lab, it wins"
(ignore that it is more expensive and slower)
"cybran has the cheaper and faster tank, it wins"
(ignore that it isn't better in a micro'd battle)
"rhino actually beats pillar"
(ignore that pillar is cheaper to get and has shields and the whole dynamic of t2 fights revolving around optimizing against OC which Cybran can never do) -
UEF gun is actually the best. Every other gun overkills since the ACU almost always fires another shot before the previous one hit, wasting at least one shot. UEF gun does not have this issue, so it can kill a <200HP unit every 2 seconds instead of every 3 seconds. Big deal against Aeon. Plus you waste less time not firing when turning or OCing.
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Uef gets hardcountered by uef since u overkill lobos by 195 dmg so its all balanced out
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Hunter is barely more expensive and LABs are the cheapest combat unit anyways, plus the speed isn't an issue because the only UEF units that can catch it loses to it.
Not all battles can be micro'd, and the Mantis can choose when and where the battle starts.
Yes Pillar is better per mass and OC is the Rhino's weakness but thats why you avoid guncom and kite with Rhino
@mazornoob said in Feedback on Cybran vs Uef ground only:
UEF gun is actually the best. Every other gun overkills since the ACU almost always fires another shot before the previous one hit, wasting at least one shot. UEF gun does not have this issue, so it can kill a <200HP unit every 2 seconds instead of every 3 seconds. Big deal against Aeon. Plus you waste less time not firing when turning or OCing.
You're right but that only applies to the UEF/Aeon matchup. It's the worst gun upgrade against Cybran
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@Zeldafanboy The LAB cost difference comes into play at a time that matters the most, at the start of a match.
One thing that I also forgot to mention is that killing bases at t1 favors uef. It can be such a grind to kill UEF factories.
UEF structures > Cybran structures. Medusa have the lowest dps out of all the arty and cybran factories have low HP.
Unit vs unit battles are pretty even. -
Cybran T2 seems to currently be the most skipped out of all the factions in the replays I see, and this mainly comes down to how Loyalists are now :
Because they hard counter any T2 with their stun weapon, but they also fall off quicker once other main T3 units are on the ground, so you have a double incentive to get to T3 as early as you can to get the most out of them, need adjusting IMHO
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It's 5 mass and 20 energy difference. That's nothing. However, you are right about the structure HP being annoying, I wouldn't recommend trying to kill factories at T1 stage, just kill eco and engies. You have to take and hold the lead with your stronger T1 phase and keep the pressure on the whole game.
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@zeldafanboy said in Feedback on Cybran vs Uef ground only:
You're right but that only applies to the UEF/Aeon matchup. It's the worst gun upgrade against Cybran
There's literally no scenario where UEF "strong gun" is worse than "fast gun".
- Unit below 100 HP? Equal. Fast gun kills in one shot, then wastes one shot. Strong gun kills in one shot.
- Unit between 100 and 200 HP? Strong gun is better. Fast gun kills in 2 shots then wastes 1 shot, strong gun kills in 1 shot and wastes no shots.
- Unit between 200 and 300 HP? Equal again. And so on.
- Fired an OC? Strong gun will reload while OC fires and lose very little time, fast gun will lose a good fraction of a second.
- Have to turn your gun 20 degrees after firing? Strong gun will take a second to reload and lose 0 time, fast gun will have a small pause.
- Firing at enemy ACU as it's moving in and out of vision? Strong gun will deal more damage due to more alpha.
In what scenario is UEF gun worse against Cybran? It even kills Medusas more effectively.
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Yes, cuz we never have acu shooting dead units. And UEF always shoots the targets that won't die before the shot connects, and they never miss.