SACUs and Factories Upgrades questions

Manimal_

I understand that FAF has brought some changes in the game mechanics.
But most of you replied my questions as if this was obvious to me.
Just think of me like I'm discovering anew the game...

About Air Factories :
I was trying to underline that they're still looking like T1 in spite of their upgrades to T3...
That's suprizing for some old player who's playing again much later and who's expecting to get a T3 A.F. that looks like a T3 A.F....

AFAIR from replies above :
If I don't upgrade this one stupid HQ thing, then I won't be able to tech up the other factories.
I don't know who decided to implement this idea of HQs and their mechanics, but it does seem useless at first sight.
And I'm wondering if all players find it good.

About the SACUs :
Absolutely nothing indicates that those ones are gaining Veterancy through the "pre-build" button. (again, at first sight)
And WHY would they suddenly gain Veterancy by pre-building their optional (back, torso, shoulder) upgrades ?
Again, this is another choice I do not understand and I do not even agree.
IMHO, you'd better re-use my Veterancy Labs as this would make things much more clear and understanble, not to say acceptable...

Nex

@manimal_ said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades seem to be bugged:

I was trying to underline that they're still looking like T1 in spite of their upgrades to T3...

They don't

(Different Amount of Arms on T1/T2/T3 and an additional tower on hqs)

@manimal_ said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades seem to be bugged:

If I don't upgrade this one stupid HQ thing, then I won't be able to tier up the other factories.

The first factory you upgrade will always be an hq upgrade.
all factories after that can and should be upgraded as support factories, which are a lot cheaper than hqs. But once your hq is destoryed you can no longer built T2/3 units from your support factories until you built a new hq.

This allows you to better scale up unit production (as the additional factories are cheaper), without spamming 300 engineers (as this would save you a significant amount of mass in vanilla FA) and this makes the game better for everyone as it will have less lag due to fewer units.

@manimal_ said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades seem to be bugged:

Absolutely nothing indicates that those ones are gaining Veterancy through the "pre-build" button.

They don't. but when killed units give veterancy to their killer based on their mass cost, but do not count their upgrades. The presets are coded in such a way, that they factor in the upgrades in their costs, thus giving more veterancy when killed and leaving a wreck including the mass from the upgrades.

Manimal_

Historicaly , the buildings gain 1 "Tower" per Tech level :

1 "Tower" = T1 (the initial look of a factory)
2 "Towers" = T2
3 "Towers" = T3

This way to show up Tech levels was (and is still) good, clear, not ambiguous.

TheVVheelboy

Well the icons are distinct enough. The buildings also look way different so not clue why it is a problem.

Manimal_

It is a problem when I think I'm having a Tech 1 building which is actualy a higher Tech one.

I'm used to the GOOD old visuals...

SpikeyNoob

Seems like a skill issue, just look at the buildings its not that hard.

Manimal_

@spikeynoob said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades questions:

Seems like a skill issue, just look at the buildings its not that hard.

it is hard to my old eyes... tiny icons with even tinyer Tech marks... d'oh !

And It's getting worse by zoom out

Nex

@manimal_ said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades seem to be bugged:

Historicaly , the buildings gain 1 "Tower" per Tech level :

1 "Tower" = T1 (the initial look of a factory)
2 "Towers" = T2
3 "Towers" = T3

No they didn't

Screenshot from Vanilla FA (no mods)

They look exactly like the support factories (aside from my chosen color)

Nex

@manimal_ said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades seem to be bugged:

it is hard to my old eyes... tiny icons with even tinyer Tech marks... d'oh !
And It's getting worse by zoom out

If your having trouble distinguishing icons/tech levels i recommend an icon mod.

These change some icons and make higher tech icons larger

These make icons somewhat larger (50%/100% size increase)

Manimal_

I agree Air Factories are the only one that change so little after techin up, while the other ones have a neatly different look.
Maybe my memories are confusing some old mod's Air Factories on which I've worked with the non-mod"ed ones.

If I was able to do it in a short time, then I'd make new models that would work like Land Factories and their "towers"...
Result : buildings instantly spotted.

Sea factories are rather ok but would diserve some more details

About icons:
This makes me think of my attempt to get "WYSIWYG" like icons in SC and FA back in the days.
Icons shape were looking like units's shape...

Ctrl-K

Everlasting Circus

Manimal_

I'm feeling a bit lost with all of the changes.
Maybe this will change after a few game.
But I'll be busy from next week, this lets little free time for playing.

Now I think my thread should move to general discussion... or not.

@genos said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades questions:

Is it circus? Or am i in a wrong place?

@genos said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades questions:

Everlasting Circus

Always criticizing others and never giving a hand ?
Nothing more constructive to say or do ?

LegionDarrath

Moved to General Discussion.

Brannou

This is next tier shit post.

I can understand the difference between selecting SACU but this is a compromise between custom sacu and preset. If i want RAS SACU i'm gonna select RAS preset. It's very unlikely that i'm gonna build a normal one then upgrade it to RAS or take another upgrade and change it to something else and if i end up doing that it's a very minor inconvenience.

As for the factory stuff it's just very blatant troll.

HQ system serves 2 purpose from what i've understood. Slow down T3 rush (cause HQ are more expensive then support factories) and eneable good scaling of production as the game go on. In vanilla FA there is only HQ making it very expensive to increase production of T3 units.

@manimal_ said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades questions Always criticizing others and never giving a hand ?

Nothing more constructive to say or do ?

SACU selection is a very minor issue because beside RAS SACU, they are not that vastely used compared to others units and no one usually go in a round about way to upgrade them ,that why no one has brough it up until now. Maybe jip can see for the selection menu if it can get fixed

HQ factories have already discussed and everyone (beside you who is apparently playing vanilla FA) is fine with how it work because that improve the game experience.

Look more like a skill issue

FtXCommando

Everyone is not fine with it actually. Petric famously still hates it. It's just been so long in the meta that it's impossible to do anything like remove it because you also throw out the last 8 years of finetuning around the system. For example, things like rebalancing t3 are essentially only the result of being able to put all your bp into t3 spam smoothly and efficiently.

I'd say it's one of those things where you sacrifice some of the strategic diversity at the highest levels of play to make the game more enjoyable at low levels, or at least make the game run better since you don't have 400 engineers per player in a 4v4 these days.

veteranashe

The hq system is really easy

Either you take engie mod that makes all BP efficient (t1, t2, t3)

Or

Only t1 engines and one factory is efficient.

It's been explained above, and if you don't use engie mod you will have -7 games

Manimal_

@veteranashe said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades questions:

Only t1 engines and one factory is efficient.
(...)
The hq system is really easy

Please, just make a pause : stand back and take a sit, then consider the whole thing.

What would you think of such RTS game which doesn't allow you to spread any buildings freely ?
Who like games that are limiting high tech building cap ?
"Oh too bad, you've lost dis stoopeed HQ. Dat cutz your wingz, so rebuild it at all cost or this game will be over"

Side note :
Buildings are counted as units, which is wrong IMHO.
Why ? Because they are not units, as simple as that.
So my idea is to no longer include buildings within the unit count.
This might lead to create a separated building counter.
This way, when you'd see 1000 units in your counter, this would mean you have 1000 running on the battle field, buildings excluded.

@i_forgorthescene said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades questions:

Nobody upgrades SACU's anyway.

@brannou said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades questions:

, they are not that vastely used

How / Why did this happen ?
is there some remedy to this ?

You want to turn your SACUs into Rambos ? T
IMHO, this would mean there should be 2 totally different SACUs, including their visuals :

a SACU that's purely a fighter with its pre-build stuff. But isn't this the T3 bot's and eventual T4 bot's job to be such Rambo ?
a SACU that's purely an engie with or without its own pre-build stuff, remaining unaffected by the order of its upgrades.

And what about LOW Tech engineers that became more efficient, turning suddenly HIGH Tech into useless engies (or so) ?
errr wait ! WHY and HOW could they be more efficient ?
Higher Tech is meant to be superior to lower Tech or does the world now turns upside down ???

EDIT: my feeling is the game is becoming some sort of Starcraft and this sux hard. FA is losing its soul and its uniqueness !!!

waffelzNoob

my hq literally almost never dies and when it does its probably game over regardless so i dont get why you're crying so much

also t3 engineers have the same efficiency as t1 engineers, except they have more build range, health, and of course access to t2&t3. please stop spreading misinformation, it could be harmful

Katharsas

@Manimal_
Oh dear lord.

Maybe if you STOP using BOLD FONT eXcEsSiVeLy, people on the internet would start to CONSIDER taking you SERIOUSLY. Bold font is EQUIAVLENT TO ALL CAPS when used LIKE YOU DO, so your posts read PRETTY MUCH like TROLL posts / ATTENTION WHORING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111!!!!!!