Sera can't deal with enemy's guncom push on t2 without a bunker

[MazorNoob]

I'm wondering if OP considers Cybran better in this situation.

[ETFreeman]

@Tagada said in Sera can't deal with enemy's guncom push on t2 without a bunker:

build 1 t2 pd

and that's exactly what i'm talking about, have to build pds to counter
and then must defend pds from missiles, for example, and that's how bunker is born
just spending mass on something that can't even move, while enemy can make something more useful and then just go another way (depends on the map, yes), forcing you to wasting more mass (more pds) i guess?

[Tagada]

Can you even read?
"You send your army NOT to your acu but to other frontline where enemy doesn't have ACU either and you abuse the fact that your army is very strong on t2. If enemy acu wants to push you build 1 t2 pd and stand in front of it so that enemy ACU can't kill it."

[epic-bennis]

I think op is right and sera t2 should be considered t1.5
Ilshies are just too weak compared to other t2 units and a guncom completely devalidates them.

[ThomasHiatt]

He is correct that Seraphim is quite weak in the T2 stage, but I don't think it is any worse than Cybran (which everyone thinks is OP). It is more an issue of UEF being too strong on the T2 stage since they get mobile shields + mongoose, pillars, and a very strong ACU all at the same stage of the game. Similar issue with Aeon.

I think mobile shields need to be nerfed in some way. They could be made to die when the shield bubble is overcharged, which there is already a PR for on GitHub. Another potential addition to this would be to give them a death weapon that activates when they are hit with overcharge, or other weapon that deals large overkill damage, so that they damage nearby units when they die. As if the shield was being overloaded by this additional damage or whatever.

I admit I was incorrect about it taking more than one energy storage to kill those units and I should be banned for spreading this misinformation. I was confused since it does take more than the minimum required overcharge energy to kill them and I mistakenly believed keyser knew what he was talking about.

[FemtoZetta]

Is there a T2 units more tanky than Ilsha, so that you actually need 2 storages to kill it? Because I made a loading tip based on this information "To kill with a single overcharge, you need 1 energy storage for T1 units, up to 2 for T2, and up to 4 for T3". Seems I'll have to change it.

[biass]

@ETFreeman said in Sera can't deal with enemy's guncom push on t2 without a bunker:

if sera makes t1 spam - he loses, because t1 spam loses against enemy t2 spam

thanks, I didn't know this.

[keyser]

@FemtoZetta yes, when he said that it wasn't the case; i tested again.
This is very weird because i remember testing back at the time when i wrote this.
Seems that T1/T2/loya/titan requires 1 OC; othuums/harbi requires 2, and percy/brick requires 3
I'm very confused because this doesn't match at all previous results.

[Ithilis]

@keyser said in Sera can't deal with enemy's guncom push on t2 without a bunker:

obsdian cost as much as ilshies. Also rhino are pretty close in term of cost (300 vs 360).

This is not true, Obsidian cosť 360mass and drain 10energy = 360+37,5 = 397,5 mass (for power plant).

[FemtoZetta]

I've never seen anyone have to make T1 pgens at T2 for fucking 10 energy drain from Obsidians lol

[Ithilis]

@FemtoZetta said in Sera can't deal with enemy's guncom push on t2 without a bunker:

I've never seen anyone have to make T1 pgens at T2 for fucking 10 energy drain from Obsidians lol

Then its +24mass for T2 Pgen. = 384m

[keyser]

ithilis is such a pro that he doesn't waste power

[speed2]

But he's right that you need that extra energy...

[Turinturambar]

It seems i missed the balance patch where overcharging a shielded unit does also kill the p gens supporting the shield

[Ithilis]

But you need to build more energy to use obsidian and this energy is stuck into this unit and cant be use into nothing else. Or not spend extra mass to build extra energy, but then you will have a very weak unit.

[Spy_Emanciator]

@ETFreeman What you are saying is how can I defeat my guncom opponent without upgrading my own com? Units only?

This is kind of a silly decision, but it is however possible. The real logic table for bread and butter play is gun com and prevent turtle, or turtle and prevent pushes from your opponent and beat them into t2 arty creep. If you are ruling out these two very very very standard options, you will need to simply outnumber them

The build you need calls for mass factory drop and t1 tank/ arty spam. You will also need to essentially feign defeat when he comes in with his gun com and let him move forward some, then having built up numbers from your large number of t1 factories, run him over with your units and just keep your com out of it, or mopping up some back units (its severely outranged).

T2 units die to quick to oc so just use numbers of t1 and a bit of surprise to catch him off guard. Again I emphasize the need to let him "win" some and lose only a few units while getting him charging recklessly forward, then go in for the kill.

No guarantee you'll polish off the com here, but you can beat that timing just by backing up just a bit and swarming.

Really though, use the main two options the most. They have higher success rates.