What would get you to play maps other than Dual Gap/Astro Crater?
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Fast filling lobby
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TMM is already there
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Knowing that BOs aren't developed on other maps, specifically on mapgens
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An adjustment to the global rating system to make it easier to try different maps.
Prior to TMM it wasn't really possible for me to play maps other than astro, as I'd be around 1500-1600 global on astro, but around 800 1v1 (I'd put my non-astro global skill level at around 1000).
If I host a game, people around my skill level are unlikely to join because they expect I'll crush them. If I join a game, then either I'll get kicked for not being as good as my ranking, kicked for being too high a rank (despite likely being similar skill to the person kicking me), or end up ruining the game for the team I'm placed on due to performing far worse than expected based on my rank.I'd therefore see the following as potential solutions:
- Give a 'times played map' figure.
The times played map figure would just show the number of games you have played on the precise map chosen. Not so useful for mapgen but for non-mapgen games that are played regularly it would give an indication someone's rank may not reflect their actual performance. However I dont know if this is possible given the host might change the map after a player joins.
- Give a rank/map variance figure
The 'rank/map variance' figure could be a numerical indicator of how many different map names the player's rank is comprised of. For illustration you could give a rating of 1 to 10 based on the variety of maps resulting in your current rank. If 100% of your games are on a map you'd have a rating of 1. If your most-played map accounts for less than 10% of your games you'd have a rating of 10.
- Have global rating adjust faster for losing streaks and/or have a time based rank decay system
Lately I've tried deliberately avoiding playing more astro games and instead use global to practice 1v1 those times that I cant find a TMM game, in the hopes that it wont take that long for my rating to get close enough to my skill level that I can join games without worrying about the problems above. However I dont play that many games compared with before so it will be a very slow process. It may be the rating system already adjusts for this but it'd be nice if the rating adjustment was greater if the person has played a very small number of games over a period of time (say <10 games over a 3m period), and if someone is on a losing streak that it adjusts faster (to balance things out, if theyre on a winning streak it also adjusts faster - this would also help reduce potential rank manipulation issues).
A variant on this would be for rank to decay gradually over time, but the variance/amount your rank changes for wins and losses to also increase, and for a limit on how far it will decay. I'm guessing a direct reduction in rank would mess up true-skill though.Since the introduction of 4v4 TMM it's a much smaller problem than before though, as I can now play team games on non-astro maps without the above issues (I'm limited to only 4v4 full share, and only the map pool specified, but that's still more variety than 1 map!)
A separate barrier is how some people expect you to play a very particular way (the problem being worse on some maps and map slots). One of the things I liked about astro was it gives you the freedom to experiment and try different strategies with teammates generally being far more relaxed. In contrast on setons even when I was a new player I was expected to perform a highly optimised build order and role while having perfect knowledge of not just which mexes are 'mine'/a teammates, but even what reclaim is mine/a teammates. However I can't think of any obvious solutions to this.
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Honestly one won't play real games till they want too.
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nice asking this on the forums when 99% of our forum warriors don't play it kappa
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To help avoid players who favour playing only a few maps ending up 'overrated' for other games, could the variety of maps you play influence the delta change on your rating? This way losing a few non gap/astro games could lower your rating much more if this is all you have been playing
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And do you expect that to not get abused by dudes trying to lose rating so that they can then ruin more dual gap games cuz they lost 400 rating in 8 games?
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@thewheelie said in What would get you to play maps other than Dual Gap/Astro Crater?:
nice asking this on the forums when 99% of our forum warriors don't play it kappa
1% here.
I personally play Dual Gap for its interesting and dynamic layout. I haven't seen any other map pull it off as well as Dual Gap does, so unless someone makes a better map, I'm sticking to Dual Gap.
frick snoops!
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@thewheelie said in What would get you to play maps other than Dual Gap/Astro Crater?:
nice asking this on the forums when 99% of our forum warriors don't play it kappa
Question: What would get you to play maps other than Dual Gap/Astro Crater?
Answer: spend more time in the forums -
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@bulliednoob said in What would get you to play maps other than Dual Gap/Astro Crater?:
@thewheelie said in What would get you to play maps other than Dual Gap/Astro Crater?:
nice asking this on the forums when 99% of our forum warriors don't play it kappa
1% here.
I personally play Dual Gap for its interesting and dynamic layout. I haven't seen any other map pull it off as well as Dual Gap does, so unless someone makes a better map, I'm sticking to Dual Gap.
Why do you think the layout is interesting and dynamic?
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@h-master said in What would get you to play maps other than Dual Gap/Astro Crater?:
@bulliednoob said in What would get you to play maps other than Dual Gap/Astro Crater?:
@thewheelie said in What would get you to play maps other than Dual Gap/Astro Crater?:
nice asking this on the forums when 99% of our forum warriors don't play it kappa
1% here.
I personally play Dual Gap for its interesting and dynamic layout. I haven't seen any other map pull it off as well as Dual Gap does, so unless someone makes a better map, I'm sticking to Dual Gap.
"Interesting" and "dynamic" are the last words I would use to describe Dual Gap. No offense. Maps where you can't put pressure on your opponent early on, are to me uninteresting and static. If you decide anything else then eco'ing, you'll loose.
But why do you think it is interesting and dynamic?izza shitpost
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Well it would work both ways, so they could lower their rating quicker, but if they go back to astro / gap it would quickly rise again. I know a separate rating for that group of maps was proposed at one point and this is a workaround for that.
Of course there is always TMM now if your global is overrated from spamming gap.
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@h-master I consider Dual Gap an interesting and dynamic map in the sense that many different strategies can lead to victory. As opposed to most other maps, Dual Gap does not have a defined meta. Ask a group of random Dual Gap players their favourite playstyle, and you'll be surprised with the variety in their responses that aren't simply ecoing up. If the players co-operate, they can easily beat the "stale Dual Gap eco meta" with quick T2 air plays into the main bases. Furthermore, strat rush, nuke rush, notha rush and t3 arty rush are examples of more strategies that can be found on Dual Gap. Not only this, but standard land pushes through middle (which can be done in many different ways) have shown to be exceedingly successful, along with attempting to attain naval domination and destroying the turtle bases from the sea.
Compare this to the generic t1/t2 spam + gun ACU gameplay you'll find on the more generally "accepted" teamgame maps, like Wonder, Canis, Hilly Plateau, and Pyramid. You'll find that Dual Gap is infinitely more interesting than whatever else everyone plays.
frick snoops!
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Some players like a lower pressure match
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@bulliednoob said in What would get you to play maps other than Dual Gap/Astro Crater?:
Compare this to the generic t1/t2 spam + gun ACU gameplay you'll find on the more generally "accepted" teamgame maps, like Wonder
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Adaptive Wonder. The build orders are extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of manual reclaim most of the eco will go over a typical GAPPERS head. There’s also our spam-based outlook, which is deftly woven into our LADDER-LIKE playstyle- our personal philosophy draws heavily from Sun Tzu literature and Nazi strategy, for instance. The 1300 (high ranked) pros understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of the playstyle, to realise that they’re not just efficient- they say something deep about FAF. As a consequence people (just kidding GAP players aren't human) who dislike Adaptive Wonder truly ARE noobs- of course they wouldn’t appreciate, for instance, the unit mix in my trademark side bo “5 tanks 1 scout 1 arty” which itself is a cryptic reference to Manstein’s usage of mass tanks in the blitzkrieg. I’m smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated GAP simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as my genius wit unfolds itself on their computer monitor. What fools.. how I pity them.
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@black_wriggler said in What would get you to play maps other than Dual Gap/Astro Crater?:
variety of maps you play influence the delta change on your rating
So you lose more if you play a map the first time?
@black_wriggler said in What would get you to play maps other than Dual Gap/Astro Crater?:
but if they go back to astro / gap it would quickly rise again
And gain more on maps you always play?
How is that supposed to reflect your skill in general?
That's literally the wrong way around.But map based rating is probably stupid anyway, as there are already 20 variations of astro/gap. So players could still get "variety rating" just because they switch between high eco, 6 Player or 8 Player Astro and stuff. And even if you actually wanted to keep your rating low, you would have to constantly look out which exact version you play. And then you would be underrated and kicked from Astro lobbies, because people think you are a smurf or manipulated your rating. And people who want to just gain rating to show off, but can only play one map, will simply create/search a "copy" of it and just gain more rating there.
without a fixed map pool a rating by map thing is impossible. -
I played hundreds of games on Dual Gap as training basically. Each spot has a very clear identity and meta. As such the amount of things you have to worry about are drastically reduced. You really can focus on your map role as dictacted by your starting posititon. Only once did I get good enough at each position did I feel ready to branch out into other maps. I didn't want to experience the learning curve on constantly new maps. It really serves the purpose of a training map very well.
