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Scouts and labs should not break tree groups

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Balance Discussion
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  • J
    Jip
    last edited by 18 May 2022, 18:26

    That would be possible - yes. But it feels like an interaction that doesn't fit this game. Toggling things on individual units is an apm / attention sink.

    A work of art is never finished, merely abandoned

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    • V
      veteranashe
      last edited by 18 May 2022, 19:47

      I like the toggle with default to not break trees.

      Scouts are supposed to be stealthy and not leave tracks

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      • T
        TheWeakie
        last edited by 18 May 2022, 20:08

        Slowed down by hitting the trees kappa

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        • S
          SpikeyNoob Global Moderator
          last edited by 19 May 2022, 02:19

          Imo a toggle would be too niche to be worth adding. I agree something should be done about being able to see trees through FoW but that should be in the form of some fix (not showing trees breaking through FoW) rather than a overly complex workaround that does not actually remove the issue.
          Also a toggle makes no sense from a perspective of realism (or consistency). Ik its just a game and there is plenty of unrealistic features, but it makes no logical sense for a mech marine to be able to with the push of the button go straight through trees. I think making labs/scouts not interact with trees and leaving tree interactions the same are both valid ideas, however i think both at once would be a mistake.

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          • C
            CheeseBerry
            last edited by 28 May 2022, 11:50

            How do we feel about T1 engies also not breaking tree groups?

            Feels to me like a noob trap you "just gotta know about" to avoid random e-stalls, that also doesn't really add anything to the game at higher levels.

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            • B
              Blackheart
              last edited by 28 May 2022, 12:17

              Tree breaking should just be fully removed from the game.

              Ban Anime

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              • S
                Skrat
                last edited by 28 May 2022, 23:02

                I don't think that's needed. Using these units specifically to destroy groups of trees is relevant only on 1 map. In other cases, take into account that labs and scouts in factions are very different (aeon and seraphim for example). Player 1 (aeon) builds labs and does not break the forest on his half of the map. Player 2 (seraphim) builds tanks and breaks the forest on his side.

                Sorry for my English. I use translator

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                • B
                  Blade_Walker
                  last edited by Blade_Walker 28 May 2022, 23:21

                  I think for Setons reducing the on-water speed of the spirit would go a long way to allowing time for the other team to destroy it before it gets into all the forestry.

                  Any non-sera can put a lab in a transport to do so.

                  Otherwise you can get situation like above where player spamming flares keeps their tree groups intact and the player making tanks breaks theirs.

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                  • C
                    CheeseBerry
                    last edited by 29 May 2022, 09:10

                    Arguing about the balance of units/mechanics on only a single map is pretty irrelevant imo.

                    Still, breaking trees in the early game is just an unintuitive feel bad mechanic all around, so why keep it?

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                    • U
                      Unknow
                      last edited by 29 May 2022, 09:19

                      Well it is a thing in the game maybe it is bad but if it is removed is make the game more linear less interesting

                      Z 1 Reply Last reply 29 May 2022, 12:34 Reply Quote 1
                      • Z
                        Zeldafanboy @Unknow
                        last edited by 29 May 2022, 12:34

                        @unknow

                        It’s just an aesthetic thing honestly. Maybe breaking tree groups should still happen but allow the engineer to still suck up the whole group at once, fallen trees and all

                        put the xbox units in the game pls u_u

                        U 1 Reply Last reply 29 May 2022, 13:41 Reply Quote 0
                        • U
                          Unknow @Zeldafanboy
                          last edited by 29 May 2022, 13:41

                          @zeldafanboy Def not only aesthetic when u see that on all maps with trees and +1800 players they all try to break opponennts trees (last setons tourney, watch nexus vs petric on LOTS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjX79ZgVd0Y)

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                          • S
                            StormLantern Team Lead
                            last edited by 2 Jul 2024, 13:12

                            Recently there has been a suggestion to perhaps make the center of tree groups visible when you are in reclaim mode (CTRL-Shift). A problem with this is, that it will make the trajectory of unscouted enemy labs visible to the player. See this discussion in Discord: https://discord.com/channels/197033481883222026/1190144799588745277

                            A possible solution is to make treegroups impervious to labs. It might even make sense considering the labs have "legs". But I'm not sure. What do others think?

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                            • T
                              ThomasHiatt
                              last edited by 2 Jul 2024, 17:15

                              Tree groups need to be visible on the reclaim overlay since they are important to reclaim on many maps. A more generalized solution that shows energy contents on the reclaim overlay instead of just mass would be preferable to showing some arbitrary dots. Though currently tree's are pretty much the only prop containing energy.

                              You can already determine the trajectory of units by noticing the trees falling over, or if the tree groups have enough mass they appear/disappear on the overlay already. You also already get free intel by seeing what bits of mass your opponent has reclaimed. 99.9% of people probably don't utilize this information, but weirdos like me and ZLO sometimes look at the falling trees to know there are labs coming, or to know precisely where to raid engineers that are reclaiming.

                              Having labs not break tree groups makes sense to me since they are tiny units and I don't think the deliberate breaking of tree groups is an important game mechanic anyway.

                              S 1 Reply Last reply 3 Jul 2024, 19:03 Reply Quote 4
                              • S
                                Sainse @ThomasHiatt
                                last edited by 3 Jul 2024, 19:03

                                @thomashiatt They are not tiny, selen is the same height as a tree, it's impossible for such a vehicle to not break trees on passage.

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                                • Z
                                  Zeldafanboy
                                  last edited by 3 Jul 2024, 19:11

                                  What if it’s made of a super advanced light material

                                  put the xbox units in the game pls u_u

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                                  • N
                                    Nuggets @Robustness
                                    last edited by 3 Jul 2024, 21:44

                                    @robustness said in Scouts and labs should not break tree groups:

                                    [...] there is no such problem on the gap [...]

                                    What more needs to be said?!
                                    Jokes aside i think it will be a massive improvement if there was (1) for example a small yellow dot in the middle of tree groups (basically something you only see if you are looking for it) and if (2) tree groups do not get broken by small, fast, raiding units (labs, scouts)

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                                    • S
                                      StormLantern Team Lead
                                      last edited by 12 Jul 2024, 17:05

                                      Alright, seems like there are relatively few objections to this. I've notified the people who might work on this to pay attention to this feedback.

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