Mercy simple suggestion: reduce damage vs ACU

@tagada said in Mercy simple suggestion: reduce damage vs ACU:

Nice idea however I doubt it would be used because in most scenarios you would just make gunships.

I'm not sure what you mean... the Specter gunship has 65 dps and price is similar to Mercy. It will take a Specter 35 seconds to deal as much damage as a Mercy (2300 damage) deals if it gets to the target. That is a lot of time for your opponent to prevent the damage being dealt.

Also, you generally try to preserve your gunships with air escorte, and fight from air cover.

Mercies after this change you would often want to use with a multi-prong surprise attack. You only need to get to the target, you'll need like 1 second for it to fire? And no return trip needed.

They will also deal slightly ok with T2 and T3 tanks and bots, 1200 mass worth of Mercies for 1 brick worth 1280 mass. 1 Mercy for most T2 tanks worth 200 mass. You only need a second for such an engagement. Very different from gunships again? They compare better to T2 bombers, but Aeon doesn't have those.

Aeon gunships are partially filling up the role of a F/B already (precisely because Aeon doesn't have a F/B) and atleast in ladder I don't see myself using such a unit. In order for it to be worth it you need to get to a high value target like a T2 mex/HQ/T2 pgen that's in your opponent's base and for such a new mercy it shouldn't be possible to reach it without a totail air control (otherwsise it would be OP, imagine 3 nothas/corsairs being able to 1 shot your HQ) or without utilizing some stealth attack. Again if I have total air control why wouldn't I make gunships that are : harder to kill, can kill both low value stuff (raid around the map) and undefended high value stuff while not being a single use weapon. The new mercy would either be balanced and not used or OP in certain scenarios and even more frustrating then right now (right now you can be prepared for a mercy snipe, imagine if 3 units that are decently hard to kill and quite fast sneak around and insta win a game by sniping an HQ)

"It will take a Specter 35 seconds to deal as much damage as a Mercy"

but against multiple t1/t2 units, the splash does a lot more. so it only takes about 12 seconds for each specter attacking globs of t1 units (or structures built close enough to get hit by splash), if it's hitting 3 at a time, not 35 seconds

And there's a lot less overkill. You don't have to be stingy with the targeting.

@tagada said in Mercy simple suggestion: reduce damage vs ACU:

The new mercy would either be balanced and not used

I can definitively say that lacking your knowledge of the game I would definitely try to use them a lot

For the same reason I cannot argue the rest of your post.

If you are right then it is a question of do we want a useless mercy that can sometimes snipe an ACU, or do we want a useless mercy that is very occasionally useful for sniping something unshielded and exposed?

I began reworking mercy some time ago (half a year?) but never finished it, the idea is to make mercy a dedicated 1 use anti-army unit with low alpha, big AoE and DoT forcing enemy to move their army out of the AoE effect. It could also be used as a Area denial weapon (ground fire in order to discentivize enemy to move through there to avoid taking dmg)
If i get motivated again and finish such rework and it would get approved then there is a chance it would be included in the next balance patch, soon tm.

@tagada cool, didn't know that was still in progress.

Not meant as a suggestion but maybe motivating... if the splash dot is big enough to cover a 4 mex starting position then it would be the first weapon meant to snipe T1 mexes.

I don't understand tagada's point, but i can see myself using mercies if they are like this.

Gunships are slow and vulnerable to AA, while fighter bomber tend to be able to snipe stufff without taking too much of AA damage. There's also the element of surprise. Random grey triangle isn't a scout, it's a mercy sniping your t2 mex, while gunships are more easily spotted, alone or in group.

On a big 20x20 maps, i can definitly see those mercy replace gunships when the ennemy has 2-3 AA turrets or few MMA to protect.

Not acceptable to have a unit that does different damage to ACU than it does to other things. Too messy and unintuitive. Special cases should be kept to a minimum.

Not acceptable to have a unit that does different damage to ACU than it does to other things. Too messy and unintuitive. Special cases should be kept to a minimum.

shoots a sideways glance at overcharge damage calculation

@thomashiatt said in Mercy simple suggestion: reduce damage vs ACU:

Not acceptable to have a unit that does different damage to ACU than it does to other things. Too messy and unintuitive. Special cases should be kept to a minimum.

Cant imagine an rts doing that

@thomashiatt said in Mercy simple suggestion: reduce damage vs ACU:

Not acceptable to have a unit that does different damage to ACU than it does to other things. Too messy and unintuitive. Special cases should be kept to a minimum.

Yeah, what? You see that Age of Empires 2 is still getting expansions, right? And a new sequel in the pipe?

I agree that it should be kept to a minimum, but moreso that it should be up front in unit description text.

I think giving it a big aoe and low damage would be good. Maybe put it in a special spot and give it low damage, large area, and an EMP/chrono effect on strike, with extra damage to shields. Then it has an effect, a unique use, and dosen't need to be snuck behind enemy lines. Or maybe it can do that too, idk.

Also it should be able to refuel, but get like 10-20 seconds of fuel at a great speed, then is just slow like everything else.

@tagada said in Mercy simple suggestion: reduce damage vs ACU:

I began reworking mercy some time ago (half a year?) but never finished it, the idea is to make mercy a dedicated 1 use anti-army unit with low alpha, big AoE and DoT forcing enemy to move their army out of the AoE effect. It could also be used as a Area denial weapon (ground fire in order to discentivize enemy to move through there to avoid taking dmg)

So a suicide variant of the Janis? Aeon will be the new banned faction on Crazy Rush (not that the map ever made much sense).

I'm guessing this unit would also be used to deny reclaim fields. Could be decent. May be too strong vs T1/T2 power grids though?

I've messed with the mercy, any change to the hp makes the unit unstoppable and pretty much guarantees a hit unless there's tons of aa

@veteranashe but isn't that the same for a corsair that deals 1200 damage? It is quite difficult to stop 1 or 2 corsairs, they are faster, have more hitpoints (1100) and their weapon range is greater with 40 vs 25.

This 1 Mercy will get more damage from first pass, but if you get 3 passes out of a corsair it is already more mass-efficient (not 2, as it costs more mass).

@valki
Corsair rarely does its full damage on a single unit thats not a building, plus it's super easy to dodge most of the rockets with your acu. Mercy is far superior for ACU snipes.

Also the Mercy is fine as it is and doesn't need a rework. It's not a great unit overall, sniping people with it is fun.

@zeldafanboy Personally I feel dirty when I kill an ACU with it, which I do every opportunity offcourse.

I would trade that in for a stronger snipe unit for buildings and big units.

@valki said in Mercy simple suggestion: reduce damage vs ACU:

Personally I feel dirty when I kill an ACU with it

Why? It dies if you sneeze on it and it's expensive. If it gets scouted, it's totally over. Your opponent deserved to die for not scouting.

Because I can scout it and then make 5 t1 aa all around my acu but because projectiles are simulated they might miss the initial shot which is all it takes for the mercy to then kill me.

Just like SAMs can only really protect things a ways behind them from T3 bombers, you need to put T1 MAA in front of your commander, not next to it. And T1 MAA is the weakest AA, a handful of inties or one flak (which should be in play by that stage of the game) just delete Mercies

Make the mercy an anti air weapon that has massive AOE and can take out huge blobs of ASFs and intis. Really make air play spicier and more frustrating. /s