Why would you have left FAF?
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@zappazapper said in Why would you have left FAF?:
no I'm more than a sub-600 player. I'm a sub-zero player. I played vanilla against the computer for years, developed many bad habits that are hard to break, like pausing the game to give me time to react, and now that I'm older and more responsible in my real life, I just don't have the time to spend to really do what I have to do to improve. I'm generally not that good at video games to begin with and I'm even worse at this one, but I really enjoy it, at least I enjoy the idea of it
I totally get where you're coming from, especially when you mentioned the 'training' on discord being geared towards making more grandmasters, rather than getting players to an 'average' rating.
FWIW I'm also middle-aged (over 40 now, yikes!), and feel my reactions faltering (more in games like streetfighter than supreme commander, but it's always there!)
I play maybe 8 matches a week. I know this is quite a lot for players at this level of commitment, but bear in mind I've only been playing FaF for a few months (I played the original game in 2007 a little - but not as much as I've played FaF, now!)
I am generally much better at videogames than my other hobbies like dancing and papercrafts though, though - I'm aware that there's a 'natural' element to it all.With all that said, we should totally chat in the game ('Sylph_') or discord ('Sylph'). I didn't do any ingame tutorials, I tried the advised build-orders in the discord training sticky-threads, but gave up on them, preferring simpler stuff!
I'd be elated to play matches, go over old games or share all the things that helped me the most though. I honestly think that there are things anyone can visit:
- with the UI (keybinding with commands like : "copy orders" or "select nearest onscreen idle MEX' -> 'upgrade structure" - are really good for building bases or scaling economy without spending much attention at crucial moments, not to mention the (far) more well-documented 'spread move' and 'set target priority' commands),
- outside of a match (factory queue templates - so that pressing tab-leftclick makes a new factory spam a big, versatile combat army),
- that don't require a large mental stack during a match (easy-to-remember build orders like: factory, 2power, 2MEX, 2power, 2MEX, 2power, factory - (a palindrome!) done before anything happens), and
- habits that can make complicated-sounding issues really simple (like how I have 'select idle engineer' bound to tilde, so I can just spam "tilde -> alt+rightclick" around the map to sort out reclaim in seconds.)
These kinds of things are certainly not going to be winning us tournaments, they result in having antiair units even when enemy don't build air, sub-optimal reclaim paths, queuing energy storage even when it wasn't needed, and so on.
But they are 'enough' to play a solid ladder game - with many of the important parts quite automatic or effortless; easily enough to be taking matches off ratings that are apparently more than 75% of the community!
I'd happily go over more detail over personal messages to you, or anyone else, who wants to listen to me waffle. I might even make a youtube tutorial with a focus on getting to 'average'.
Perhaps most importantly, I'd watch replays or live games and give feedback at this low level of play. Bear in mind, I'm no pro - I remember very clearly (just a few months back) when I was losing to everyone and had no idea of how to get an edge - which might just put me in a better position to help raise the lower ranks than 'pro' players - sometimes when they've been good for ages, people take for granted the millions of things they're learned! I aren't good, and have only been learning a few months, so I know very well exactly what the 'big' jumps have been down to!All that being said, I know you weren't asking for training, you were commenting on what might improve player retention, and I think you're hitting a very important point - I've seen players online feeling utterly un-motivated after losing games with no idea of what the problem is, or even why they are getting matched against people with whom they can't compete. You're quite right, accessibility to the 'basic' game is very important for its longevity - and I think it's pretty important that the players winning matches against these newcomers or struggling players are often using hundreds of little UI and control edges that can add up to a monumental advantage.
It's my belief that all these little 'tricks' need to be better spread among the non-pro playerbase - they make a massive difference. -
I would leave this game for the same reason most veterans would leave, massive, drastic changes to the core gameplay. Its the exact reason I left Star craft 2. every year the game changes completely. instead of doing things to help raise the skill ceiling, you nerf or strengthen units. So players who have a good understanding of economic and tactical gameplay get nerfed, and slower players get their hand held because it now takes longer for them to die.
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@prophet Name one change in the past 3 years that required relearning core gameplay mechanics
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E storage adjacency buff and t3 mass fab rework (both impact optimal scaling depending on situation)
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Honestly I don't think that's enough of a change for core gameplay mechanics.
I would say the older changes such as these effects core gameplay
E storage for overcharge
T1 to t2 mass fab
Engie mod
Creation of T3 maa -
Thats all 7+ years old
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T1 to T2 mass fab was even an FA change I think
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The only change that has been mentioned that I think would count as actually having to relearn core gameplay is engy mod and that was more than 3 years ago. E storage and mass fab changes are relatively speaking so trivial that for anyone even remotely competent at the game it would take little to no effort at all to account for. And if you’re not somewhat competent they’re not big enough changes to matter whatsoever for you anyway.
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@exselsior said in Why would you have left FAF?:
The only change that has been mentioned that I think would count as actually having to relearn core gameplay is engy mod and that was more than 3 years ago. E storage and mass fab changes are relatively speaking so trivial that for anyone even remotely competent at the game it would take little to no effort at all to account for. And if you’re not somewhat competent they’re not big enough changes to matter whatsoever for you anyway.
Not just more than 3, that was like 9 or 10 years ago (2013-2014)
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@zappazapper said in Why would you have left FAF?:
I didn't really agree with the general ideology. It seems to me that the prevailing goal of those who are in a position to advise players on how to improve their game is to generate as many high-rated players as possible. I understand where this comes from - those players who have high ratings struggle to find games with other high-rated players, making the game less enjoyable for them.
I'm sorry to hear you didn't get a great experience when asking for help. May I ask whether it was a random guy on the FAF-forum, Discord or client or if it was an "official" trainer?
Cuz I'm honest, we trainers don't have a guide we have to follow. Each one of us has an individual teaching-style and different methodes. E.g. I do aim to bring people into the 1500+ rank, but that's not because I simply want them to be high ranked, but because I cannot say how deep I should explain e.g. the t1 stage in 1v1s so the player becomes roughly a 1200 ranked dude. However when someone is dm'ing me for training, I always give them a warning that my goal is to bring them into the higher bracket.
That's why we have more lower ranked trainers as well. E.g. if someone is a regular 1200 ranked trainer, he simply can't bring you up to 1800 or even 2000 as you mentioned. He can explain the stuff and bring you onto his level.Overall if a trainer doesn't match your expectations, please don't hesitate to either ask in the training-channel where everyone can answer (normal "low" ranked users as well) or to look for a different trainer. It's not a shame to switch if their style doesn't fit you.
Thank you for your detailed explanation though, I'll keep it in mind when following the discussions on the Discord.
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@zappazapper If you're just trying to get from 0 to 750 or 1k, I think my guide should get you there. It explains the things that I found surprising when I shifted from playing against the AI to playing against humans. The beginner parts of the guide are only a few pages long (parts 1-3).
If you read through the beginner part of the guide, and make an effort to learn how to spam t1 tanks for the first 10 minutes of a match, you can learn fundamentals like map control, scouting, and raiding, and you can get far enough into the match that you can do fun stuff like making t2 mexes or making a t2 air snipe, or however you want to play it.
For most people who are stuck at zero rating, they fall behind early in the match and then their opponents don't have to make smart choices, they can just do whatever and they will still win simply from inertia from having a big eco advantage.
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@thewheelie yep.
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hello
for me its 1 and only thing - toxicitybefore faf i was playing (online) 1 roleplay game only, there was pvp too but it was all nice and shit , we didnt really rp much but just pvp between guilds and since players couldnt really change them once choosen so you were enemy for life there still was no toxic...
ofc this was not only game i played and 1 of others was supreme commander and that i was playing alone mostly and sometimes i did convice my wife to play with me ... now 1 day she told me she only played this with me cos she loves me but this game sucks for her but look there is FAF thing go there and leave me alone
and so i did and im here 12+ years or somy first experiences here was hard tho , every game i was insulted both ingame and after game while i was 800rating top with few games , there was none friendly , other noobs were just silent noobs or insulting me and others too,
i remember to this day that only 1 game someone actually helped me (and other noobs) and on gap map put pins for everyone what you should do on every position and after all this years it was just this one (and this little) that someone tried to help me without insult me
ofc im not innocent too here , i remember talk with my wife that i was unsure if thats ok but we was thinking its diffrent kind of game (RTS not RP) and mayby its how you play it and insults and shit is part of it as everyone do it ... so i started to be toxic too
now when i got higher and higher with rating less and less insults was going towards me (even when i did stupid shit) and now it basically stops (few of idiots that still do that i just avoid)still being toxic seems like being part of faf community for me , even some casters feel free to insult some groups of players and rest of you support them or just stigmatize playing diffrent maps that you like (like gaps vs open maps war), there is also a lot of toxic even on this forum when sometimes asking for help or some answers turn up many ppl insulting you instead helping you ... thats stuff was unimaginable to me (and kind of still is)when i was playing my rp game
solution to this is very simple just add to ban list - swearing and insulting , force to behave - especially towards noobs cos im 100% sure at least half of them leave bc this , i did too many times left for some time ... cos you know i dont spend my times with idiots in rl why should i ingame but hell this game is so nice i come back so far
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Nickname holds true. While also throwing amazing shade at this whole post lmao
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lol not more than 10 mins and already proving my points
anyway im not going to talk here , i posted my opinion only , no point to talk to some ...
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I'm sorry. I just find it absolutely hilarious that you are using a slur in your own nickname then proceed to speak about how toxicity bad. Then you say that you, yourself willingly decided that you are gonna be toxic PoS for no reason to other players in FAF.
Also, what's even better is that you wrote this post just 1 hour after insulting your own teammates multiple times in FAF games.
Like how the fuck do you want me to take your garbage post seriously when I'm painfully aware of multiple instances where you insulted others in games of FAF....The fucking nerve of some people...
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yea lol
insults again and over again and lies on top of it and all bc none can punish you or prolly none dont even want to discuss shit with you .. and still you dont see point there -
Literally today my friend. -
Lib destroyed with facts and logic
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Dw Rowan will handle the toxicity as he intented to do.
