There currently is no viable naval counter for sera vs cybran t2 subs on naval. sera destroyers have horrible torpedo defense, range, and torpedo damage. So if the cybran player masses t2 subs (1.1k mass) vs sera destroyers (2.25k mass) they have a hard counter for half the mass. t1 subs cant do any damage to t2 subs.

This leaves 2 basic options, torpedo bombers, or outplay them so badly that you can tech up to t3 and make t3 subs. with the nerf to torpedo bombers, and the fact that if they land in the water they wont hit the subs, this leaves a massive exploit.

a possible solution to this could be increasing the reloading time of the t2 sub flare, or decreases how many torpedoes it fires so the sera destroyer has higher survivability. As soon as there are 4-5 subs, not a single torpedo can penetrate their defense, and if they do, its minimal damage.

@nine2

I would leave this game for the same reason most veterans would leave, massive, drastic changes to the core gameplay. Its the exact reason I left Star craft 2. every year the game changes completely. instead of doing things to help raise the skill ceiling, you nerf or strengthen units. So players who have a good understanding of economic and tactical gameplay get nerfed, and slower players get their hand held because it now takes longer for them to die.

@xejinord11

as much as there isnt even a point replying to this, seeing as you have proviced 0 evidence at all. I will repeat by saying no, they dont have any adequate counter to subs. you have proven no damage values, no insight. saying the sera destroyer is the best because is can submerge is a useless statement to say. great they can submerge, and die just as fast as before

@Hotcheese

another fantastic suggestion ^.^

@Jip

giving torpedo's a small splash damage would be a great addition. I do not think the whole system needs to be re-worked, but small tweaks to make subs less oppressive.

Not having torpedoes automatically retarget a new ships after death and even reducing sera t3 subs HP to 3000 would still allow it to play the role of sub hunter.

@ping_127_0_0_1

i didnt know they were looking at re-working the naval balance.

on a side note i hate how subs are allowed to be stacked, effectively making one mega unit with a huge pool of health. Another thing that is impossible to counter

@Jip

so when a player disconnects can a team decide who gets that base? or do the units automatically go to the highest rated player, like in fullshare?

@Lenkin

it is definetly NOT ok. in a 6v6 gap game at least 3 russian players will disconnect.

i know everyone has posted complaining about sera subs, and because they mostly used in phantoms/gap no one really cares, however I must ask, what is their role? They annihilate everything that is not a battleship, and even at that a battleship cannot kill mass t3 subs.

I get the counter to this argument will be use torpedo bombers ( not effective as the anti torp defense will intercept a large amount of torpedo's) or ground fire with battleships. but the reality is microing t3 subs requires little to no effort and summits and cybran battleships have no chance hitting them.

a main issue with them is their range is very long, and when they kill units the torpedoes automatically target the next ship.
If their role is to counter t2 subs, then we should balance them accordingly. but i feel that since the change to torpedo targeting, all subs are far too overpowered. they should not be able to go toe to toe with destroyers, and in most cases, snowball with their torp defence and overwhelm destroyers.

a simple reduction in torpedo damage, or not allowing them to retarget ships after being fired would bring them more in line with how how their role should be defined. Not as a damage dealer but as a unit you can use to bolster your fleet.

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@Lenkin is GAF getting DDossed too? i

man this is frustrating. half my games i disconnect within 6 minutes of the game starting. Completely drops my internet. These losers need to get a life and stop trying to ruin FAF

@Nomander so far today out of 5 games, 3 have desync, different players every time :S

@ZLO i had probably 8 games desync last weekend. not sure if its related to the patch, but there is definitely an issue