The Superior FAF Experience Mod
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So you made a post to the balance forums section and end it with "NO STEALING"
This should be moved to the mod subforum instead.
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Just lock this thread, so no one can steal it *smirk*
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D Deribus moved this topic from Balance Discussion on
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Move to mod forum
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Jesus the amount of braincells I've lost reading that. I started to quote and deconstruct some shit you said but it's not even worth the effort tbh cuz I know you won't change your behaviour / opinion in any meaning anyway. So I'll just redirect you to the balance-patch-feedback-forums and wait for your GREAT insights!
Ngl I hope you might find the way ComradeStryker did. He's doing an absolutely amazing job at arguing for changes and I'll definitely refer to his post when proposing a balance change. Simply the fact that you think they're promoting defensive gameplay after literally nerfing the mex and PG hp and the units leave less reclaim which makes raiding way more efficient just shows that you apparently don't inform yourself enough.
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@sladow-noob said in The Superior FAF Experience Mod:
Jesus the amount of braincells I've lost reading that. I started to quote and deconstruct some shit you said but it's not even worth the effort tbh cuz I know you won't change your behaviour / opinion in any meaning anyway. So I'll just redirect you to the balance-patch-feedback-forums and wait for your GREAT insights!
Ngl I hope you might find the way ComradeStryker did. He's doing an absolutely amazing job at arguing for changes and I'll definitely refer to his post when proposing a balance change. Simply the fact that you think they're promoting defensive gameplay after literally nerfing the mex and PG hp and the units leave less reclaim which makes raiding way more efficient just shows that you apparently don't inform yourself enough.
Here's a wild take, quote and deconstruct his changes other than the wordy paragraphs. Have any problem with that? Sera T2 PD overshooting/leading units has been an issue for years. He fixed it. Scouts no longer providing intel after death, making you want to have to shoot em down? Fixed. Hoverbombing? Takes skill, but tilts the scale in such a manner that if any other unit had that sort of OP, it would've immediately been fixed. Mobile Factories ACTUALLY work while moving now?! Done.
Hate him all you want, but at least he's trying to fix shit that should have been done a while back.
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I love how you mentioned stuff which was going on in development for quite a while now and will even come out soon as well for FAF :cube_dude:
Love how you apparently didn't read the part where he said players X, Y helped him out while doing so, assuming it's entirely his work -
"go thru the changes and say why they're bad"
Impossible because some of these changes could be answering problems his own changes made lol. I have no idea what "rebalancing t2 and t3 tanks" means and I have no idea if him rebuffing t4s like gc is reasonable because of it. It isn't reasonable for current balance, that's for sure.
"Hoverbombing? if any other unit had that sort of OP, it would've been immediately fixed"
- Groundfiring Subs
- Groundfiring PD to abuse AoE
- Halting fire on gunships to lower below shield and kill the shield structure
- Manually dispersing gunships to avoid flak
- Manually dispersing janus to avoid flak
- Dodge micro via BS to cause enemy BS to overshoot
- Microing Aeon lab to kill a tank
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@sladow-noob said in The Superior FAF Experience Mod:
I love how you mentioned stuff which was going on in development for quite a while now and will even come out soon as well for FAF :cube_dude:
Love how you apparently didn't read the part where he said players X, Y helped him out while doing so, assuming it's entirely his workAh, yes. God forbid he fix things that were "in development for quite a while now" as you said, while ignoring the fact he fixed them...before they did.
I also fail to see how giving credit to the people that helped him is somehow a knock against the work....isn't that how credit works?
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@ftxcommando said in The Superior FAF Experience Mod:
"Hoverbombing? if any other unit had that sort of OP, it would've been immediately fixed"
- Groundfiring Subs
- Groundfiring PD to abuse AoE
- Halting fire on gunships to lower below shield and kill the shield structure
- Manually dispersing gunships to avoid flak
- Manually dispersing janus to avoid flak
- Dodge micro via BS to cause enemy BS to overshoot
- Microing Aeon lab to kill a tank
Glad you found one thing you could actually give reasons for, but it's wild how everything you listed isn't near as effective, or would take place much later in the game when it would be your fault for not reacting, vs. hoverbombing 1:30 in.
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Don't let Drews or your own standoffish nature distract from the good.
There is bad, and there is ugly. This mod is his vision and his preference.
But... The crab has a sick animation for shidding out eggs now. Like, thats epic.
The fatboy too.I suggest taking a look at it.
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@crotchcritter said in The Superior FAF Experience Mod:
it's wild how everything you listed isn't near as effective, or would take place much later in the game when it would be your fault for not reacting, vs. hoverbombing 1:30 in.
I’ve ended games or had my games ended by all of these.
Hoverbombing doesn’t end games at min 1:30, the only thing you’re getting hoverbombed is pgens, which:
- is right in your base where your land fac would be for aa
- your fault for being greedy and not spacing out pgens
- Most likely isn’t even the best target for a early bomber
Hoverbombing engies has countermicro of getting the engie behind the bomber so you fuck up the hover micro and it’s less efficient since there is less guessing about which engie is being attacked. That’s bad when half the damage of first bomber is stopping expansions and queued up orders.
How are you supposed to react to me dispersing my 15 janus so your flak can only hit 1 at a time btw?
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How are you supposed to react to me dispersing my 15 janus so your flak can only hit 1 at a time btw?
I build more than one
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I see we're back to "elitist balance team just make changes to make up for their lack of skill". 4head
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@crotchcritter said in The Superior FAF Experience Mod:
How are you supposed to react to me dispersing my 15 janus so your flak can only hit 1 at a time btw?
I build more than one
You can kill up to 4 with this, and I can’t remember the last time I saw more than 4 stationary flak built anywhere.
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I will get interested when veterancy is removed.
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It is great to see so much effort being put into the game, whether that is through a mod or otherwise
But I wish you followed the best practices with regards to hooking existing Lua code. At the moment instead of hooking the mod overrides several critical files / classes, such as:
/lua/sim/unit.luaand/lua/defaultunits.lua, overwriting the code basis that all units rely on/lua/sim/defaultprojectiles.luaand/lua/defaultantiprojectiles.lua, overwriting the code basis that a lot of projectiles rely on/lua/ui/game/unitview.lua, overwriting the code of the unit info as you hover over a unit and all interactions with it/lua/ui/game/construction.lua, overwriting the code of the construction menu and all interactions with it
As a consequence, if we'd make any change to any of these files / classes then your mod will simply overwrite them. Other files / classes may rely on those changes, and error out accordingly.
One such example is the spread attack alternative, which adds one function to the unit class. That function would not exist in your mod. And therefore the code would error out. That change will be released on the 24th, removing the old spread attack implementation. And the alternative won't work in your mod the way it is setup now.
As an example, take the second item of the modification-resources channel on Discord:
And specifically:
Which explains you exactly how to do it, along with some good fashioned humor of Balthazar. It is a good read, even for those that are not into making mods
As you mention copyrights at the end of your post - the repository has no license. Some files have a specific header indicating a license, such as with the navigational mesh. When no such license exists the default copyright laws apply, which you can read about here:
Some of the files that you copied from top to bottom are taken from the repository. You technically don't have the rights to distribute those through the vault. To quote the license you agree on when uploading content to the vault:
In particular, you represent and warrant that the User Generated Content was originally created by you (or, with respect to a User Generated Content to which others contributed besides you, by you and the other contributors, and in such case that you have the right to submit such content on behalf of those other contributors).
You can read the vault rules / license here:
- https://wiki.faforever.com/en/Development/Vault/Rules
- https://content.faforever.com/tos/vault-license.html
I don't mind that you're taking files that I worked on. The moral of my response however is to encourage you to properly hook the files you're working with. That way your mod will not break the game starting on the 24th of August. And your mod will only contain the code that it needs to function, reducing the copyright issues mentioned above to a minimum.
And with all of that said - I'd love to know how you fixed beam weapons occasionally missing a target. A lot of attempts have been made in the past and none of them really fixed the problem
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I see Fixed in Equilibrium, I like.
Shame for the attitude.
Could you eventually consider making eq-like changelogs?
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I appreciate all of the work that has gone into the mod and I hope some of the bug fixes (like the beam weapons missing targets) and perhaps some features can be implemented into the base game version. However, I'm sad to see so much slander directed at the Balance team even if you disagree with the changes we've made over the past years. I can only hope you will be open to working in a civilized manner with the existing developers on improving the base game as well. A lot of the bug fixes and some features could have been easily implemented into the base game if you had engaged in a productive discussion or simply made contributions on GitHub.
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@tagada said in The Superior FAF Experience Mod:
I appreciate all of the work that has gone into the mod and I hope some of the bug fixes (like the beam weapons missing targets) and perhaps some features can be implemented into the base game version. However, I'm sad to see so much slander directed at the Balance team even if you disagree with the changes we've made over the past years. I can only hope you will be open to working in a civilized manner with the existing developers on improving the base game as well. A lot of the bug fixes and some features could have been easily implemented into the base game if you had engaged in a productive discussion or simply made contributions on GitHub.
I would argue there are better ways to go about it, but Drews attitude is a direct reflection of the crap that gets slung at him anytime he posts. Drew pokes the bear with 14 paragraphs, everyone else mocks your requests due to a lack of "skill expression". It's one and the same.
With that being said, I think you'd find Drew & Drunken indispensable if you worked together. I've seen first hand how incredibly boring, mind numbing, and thankless the job of coding and balancing can be.
Any individual who spends dozens of hours of their personal time on things like this obviously care about the game and the future of it.
