Adjust Recall

I don't think the recall system should force live players who don't vote recall to lose and stop playing against their will. So, I suggest that recall is changed to only remove the players who voted for it when a recall vote succeeds. That way, those players are not forced to stay in the game and the remaining player(s) are not forced to quit.

I think this change should be implemented either way, but I think it would be particularly nice in combination with the change proposed here.

I realize that some people will argue with this change on the basis that they don't want the players on the winning team to actually play the game out instead of potentially joining the queue for the next match. I have several things to say regarding that:

  1. If the game is so one-sided that the remaining player(s) have no reasonable change of victory, then it should end soon anyway. If it isn't so one-sided that the remaining player(s) can be killed quickly, even after their teammates recall, then perhaps it wasn't so one-sided to begin with and the players could try to pull off a win.
  2. I think this issue is basically pronounced with a very small subset of very high-rated players who have a very disproportionate forum presence. (For perspective, I could probably guess the names of the players who will argue with this post and count them on my fingers. : P) I'm not saying it doesn't apply to anyone else, but allowing players to keep playing in a game that they want to keep playing in seems like a good thing for like 99% of FAF players.
  3. I think most players actually like chill situations where they're winning and can make epic T4's and make enemy coms explode and such. So, I don't think it's normally some big impetus for the winning team to actually carry out their win in-game. A decent number of people might actually even consider that their favorite part of the game.
  4. And being forced to quit in a game where you are confident you can win can feel really undesirable. I have had many games where the majority of my team wanted to quit, and some where some teammates actually did quit, and I ended up winning anyway. Comebacks do happen, and it's not like they're super rare in FAF, especially when dealing with lower and mid-rated opponents and snipes and such. So, I think people shouldn't be forced to quit against their will.

pfp credit to gieb

The whole point of this being implemented was that high level dudes get stuck in a game because 1 guy thinks he’s God’s gift to strategy and will solo humanity. At top level you don’t have 5 dudes waiting around to fill the next game, you just sit idle in the next lobby while it takes 10 minutes to grind the win out.

So to stop it, people started to base ctrl+k. Mod team decided to make it a blanket ban to base ctrl+k, dynamic was explained after a few terrible bans, recall was implemented.

Your proposal just brings us back to base ctrl+k’ing to stop dudes ruining the night of games.

This post is a copy of:

where I proposed the following solution:

We're looking into making it a lobby option, where the host can enable / disable recalling as he / she sees fits. It would be disabled by default. That way lobbies where it matters (2K+) can have it enabled, but lobbies where it does not matter that much can have it disabled. People can then just stay / leave as they see fit.

How does that sound?

It would be enabled for TMM by default. Note that we use a very similar criteria to the one used by League of Legends:

edit: beyond that, we're not changing how recall works. The suggestions made in this topic would entirely defeat the purpose of why we added the feature in the first place.

A work of art is never finished, merely abandoned

It's not a duplicate of that post, actually. That post proposes making recall require all players agreeing to succeed. My OP does not propose that. My OP proposes adjusting recall to allow the remaining player(s) who didn't vote to recall to continue playing after the others had a successful recall vote which enabled them to leave. Thus, my suggestion would not defeat the purpose of adding the feature in the first place, as people would still be allowed to recall and leave without ctrl-k'ing.

pfp credit to gieb

You can leave a lost game whenever you want. You don’t need recall or base ctrl+k for that. The point of both is to solve the issue of keeping enemy team stuck in stasis to kill a dude that is functionally dead.

Both the above solutions solve that, your adjustment doesn’t.

How this new version of recall is different from just leaving the game? Its just "oh gg go next" written in chat but called "recall vote"

Skill issue

i'd strongly recommend the following:
1)make it an option for custom lobbies (which is enabled by default), so people can have the option of not playing with it if they find it suitable for the game;
2)keep it in the current state for any MM system;

queuing with a newbie to show him the beauty of tmm and meeting tagada be like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLcRpdZ0Xb0&ab_channel=Tomoko

I don't like the idea of players being able to force someone else on their team to concede, but I'd forgotten about the planned change to make it into a lobby option which addresses the majority of my concerns. I'd prefer it if it could be disabled by default at lower ranks on TMM and enabled at higher ranks since the impression I've gotten is the issue the feature aims to address is far more of an issue at the higher ranks while the drawbacks of it are likely to be more pronounced at lower ranks where players may not understand what the system is, but appreciate such a solution could be more complicated than it'd be worth as well as unintuitive (since you wouldn't know when entering a TMM game if recall was enabled or disabled)

I've not been part of a recall vote (only seen the opposing team recall) so I dont know if there's anything to communicate to team members what is happening beyond a message saying that [player/team] has recalled - i.e. if it isn't already ideally it should be clear to everyone on the recalling team that as most of the team voted to recall, it means the game is surrendered, to pre-empt queries people might have about why it recalled when they voted no.

@penguin_ I Agree 100% I can't stand the recall function. People just give up way more often. the host should be able to set this function to on or off. I was just in a seton game that was still winnable but someone asked for a vote and 2 of 3 said recall so it was insta gg. REALLY annoying and ruins the fun of trying to win from your backfoot.

@redfox Yes, people chicken out too easily.

Just played a match, and, similar to the OP, I was forced to recall against my will in 3v3 TMM.
Though we were on the backfoot, the game wasn't nearly over - at least in my eyes, that is.

I saw the recall notification pop up, then bam, two votes agreed.
No point in my vote.

I get the feeling that Team Match Maker should have all players make a unanimous vote to make it fairer for those who wish to stay.

Other than that, the game is already fullshare, so if they don't want to stay after the vote, they can always leave.
At the very least, I believe 3v3 TMM should have all players vote and 4v4 should have all or 75% of your team vote since it is a larger group.


~ Stryker

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Making the vote unanimous would negate the main point of the recall feature

The tiny amount of times it can be misused leaving one person unsatisfied are entirely outweighed by all the other times it makes things better.

i vote to keep it like it is rn

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Taken on its own, it does feel very strange that other teammates can force you to leave a game.

I like the recall feature, I think it's a nice and clean way of quitting a game that's lost. But I play most often with people I am in a discord with, and so we usually agree with each other before the vote is called.

I don't really understand this mentality:

The whole point of this being implemented was that high level dudes get stuck in a game because 1 guy thinks he’s God’s gift to strategy and will solo humanity.

Is this from the perspective of the losing team? If so, why not just leave? If it is from the perspective of the winning team, does that mean you want the enemy to give up when you think the game has been decided?

The tiny amount of times it can be misused leaving one person unsatisfied are entirely outweighed by all the other times it makes things better.

@Exselsior Maybe you can help me understand; what does the recall function make better?

"Design is an iterative process. The required number of iterations is one more than the number you have currently done. This is true at any point in time."

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@indexlibrorum said in Adjust Recall:

I don't really understand this mentality:

The whole point of this being implemented was that high level dudes get stuck in a game because 1 guy thinks he’s God’s gift to strategy and will solo humanity.

Is this from the perspective of the losing team? If so, why not just leave? If it is from the perspective of the winning team, does that mean you want the enemy to give up when you think the game has been decided?

Let's assume you play a 6v6 on a 20x20 map. Game is totally won for you, you got map control, more eco, more units. However it's min 12 only for now, but let's say you insta-won because you killed the transports of your opponents.
5 of the opponents' team left and already hosted a lobby because there's no point in playing. However the last dude just doesn't want to give up.
What you're saying is that his m8s could leave, which was the case. But what about your team - the winning one? You're forced to stick around for 10+ more min simply because one dude doesn't want to give up, effectively wasting your time. Snipes are not always the solution because there is a chance a reclaim-boost might give him a chance -> Sometimes you simply need to play rather carefully, making it even worse

That was the case on maps and not only with 10+min until you finally won, but for 20-30min which is just annoying af and a waste of time for everyone.

Inactive.

@sladow-noob Okay, but then you deny the remaining player the chance for a comeback, yes?

Snipes are not always the solution because there is a chance a reclaim-boost might give him a chance -> Sometimes you simply need to play rather carefully, making it even worse

Because this basically boils down to "he still has a chance if we don't play optimally", and I'm not sure if it's right to forcefully deny that to anyone either. Surprise comebacks can be a lot of fun after all.

I understand that that can be frustrating for the other team, but I'm not convinced that weighs up to forcefully removing someone from their game.

"Design is an iterative process. The required number of iterations is one more than the number you have currently done. This is true at any point in time."

See all my projects:

I find it okay that you have to make compromises sometimes when playing with other people. If you want to be solely in change of how the game develops then you have to play 1v1 or with bots. Whenever people meet they have to find arrangements on how to spend the time together.
And if more than one guy wants to play for the epic comeback they still can, because then the recall vote fails.

@indexlibrorum said in Adjust Recall:

@sladow-noob Okay, but then you deny the remaining player the chance for a comeback, yes?

Snipes are not always the solution because there is a chance a reclaim-boost might give him a chance -> Sometimes you simply need to play rather carefully, making it even worse

Because this basically boils down to "he still has a chance if we don't play optimally", and I'm not sure if it's right to forcefully deny that to anyone either. Surprise comebacks can be a lot of fun after all.

I understand that that can be frustrating for the other team, but I'm not convinced that weighs up to forcefully removing someone from their game.

You won't see that in high ranked games. Well obviously if you just rush 30 corsairs at min 15 to finally end it and they end up dying, then surprise - that dude has a chance, who would've thought? "Optimally" in that case simply means "don't suicide 15k mass in front of his base".
You're not arguing that it's denying a chance of comeback, you say if one team wants to end it quickly because another lobby is open already, then they should get punished for wanting to end it quick due to being a waste of time.

Inactive.

I never quit a game because it's fun to play short stacked to see how much you can do and the bigger reason is you learn a ton build a lot of skills.

So I never recall. Just make a key bind to recall so it's instant and doesn't have the effects of ctr k

If you want out of a game and others don't, just com bomb