Hi back from hols so thought I would address this, hope this helps correct this misconception that RAS coms have similar efficiency to fabs
@wikingest said in Why seraphim dont have RAS?:
@ftxcommando said in Why seraphim dont have RAS?:
Your math is also incomplete because you need approx 30 or so hives to make a decent boy production facility.
Add some more lies. Player can use engineers to assist gateway. And the amount should be in relation of economy, possibilitys, and game plan, not because someone on net ordered so.
Yes you can assist your gateway with a large number of engineers which you are likely to have leftover from reclaim duty, although the roll of time for the coms will start being significant.
The real issue here is that sections of the gateway building, for some reason are pathable to external unit, so it only takes 1 engie that is not actually assisting after being ordered, to find it's way inside and suddenly your expensive eco-generator is sitting idle.
@black_wriggler said in Why seraphim dont have RAS?:
your math is ok but this is not an accurate comparison and lacks context
Context was, that a polite new player asked a totally justified question, and got avalanched by lies and toxicity. My comparisions goes to examples brought out by others. And as you are saying, that I was not accurate in those comparaisons, show me where was the mistake I supposedly made.
If you think those examples were bad, then tell that to people who invented stuff like that.
It seems the previous comparison was mass fabs with storages, but this is not the closest comparison we can make to the eco granted by RAS coms so this is why I provided a better example
@black_wriggler said in Why seraphim dont have RAS?:
we also need to build a gateway first
Gateway cost 3000 mass and gives 120 buildpower, same as 4 t3 engineers, with mass cost 1248. In the same time gateway has 10000hp, while t3 engi (cyb) has 740. Even if you ignore totally the hp, it is only 1754 extra mass. If you divide it by, let's say 50 ras sacus expected to be built, it is extra cost of 35 mass by sacu.
You need about the same amount of build power to build massstorage ringed t3 massfab, as for sacu, but you lose lots of it, when engis are moving, so there is no economi on that side.
OK so I was wrong - your math here is wrong. You can't just subtract the mass cost of engineers from the cost of the gateway because it comes with build-power. Does the game give you this discount? You need to spend the 3k to get the building, to start making the coms, which is the price of admission, and the building just happens to come with 120 BP, but as mentioned you will need to add a bunch more anyway compared to making fabs, to scale your eco in a reasonable time
@black_wriggler said in Why seraphim dont have RAS?:
if you are fighting any t3 army with your RAS COMS you will trade very poorly
You mean mass equivalent? Never seen anyone deliberatly doing that, so I cant see why do you invent that. Who would build those for frontline combat? Where does that idea come from? Have you tried fighting t3 army with massfabs, rather than with military units and pd's?
sure you can fight t1 arty with coms, but vs a large t3 army or experimentals they are about as good as fighting with the fabs So you either spam PD or try and run away.
@black_wriggler said in Why seraphim dont have RAS?:
you can build two t3 pgens and two t3 fabs with the double adjacency
Yes, this is true. You can use adjacency, more you use, more you get, and more it becomes explosive. And you can have more than double adjacency. You can cover big parts of map with this type of farm. And then if one enemy t1 arty gets through for long enough, all that explodes in chain reaction. Or bomber run. Or drop. Or enemy builds satellite. Or tac gets through. Etc.
But if you have an army of sacu's behind your base, they can counter lots of t1 arty with no loss at all. Same for other things, they can build pd's shields and more, before dying (one by one). And they can move, hide underwater etc.
Yes, adding different example with added ajacency and added explosiveness, makes it in the same time better and worse. Depends from game situation.
Also, you don't get to reduce the cost of the RAS coms because of their build power or energy generation - does the game give you this discount?
This would be like reducing the cost of the T3 pgens in a fab grid because of the surplus energy they provide...
At this point you are floating thousands of power anyway so it is not relevant
You could make an argument for the build power but in reality you will need to spend much more mass on buildpower to assist your gateway to scale at the same speed as building fabs.
This thread was about Sera not having RAS on their sACU, but this is not a balance issue since making fabs is much more efficient. Sera can even use a T2 shield to cover most layouts to save more mass.
Really the build power is what make RAS coms feel strong - nerfing all sACU to, say, 20 BP and adding combat engineer presets would go a long way to fixing this.