Is It Me, Or Has T3 Artillery Become OP
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I started playing again recently and it seems like T3 artillery has gotten a major boost since i last played. It used to be a significant annoyance, forcing you to build lots of shields to counter it, but now it seems there is no counter. Building a bunch of shields seems to have no effect. A single T3 arty decimates my base in short order no matter what I do. In all my games recently, whoever builds a T3 arty first wins. This is not fun.
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Thats the answer? The solution to the now OP artillery? Well that is just stupid. Who the hell wants to micro manage turning their shields on and off like that when they have so many other things to be micro managing. It doesnt even make sense. Did players ask for this? And why did it become necessary, because it wasnt before. Building lots of shields was a fair counter to a single artillery. 2 or more artillery would still overwhelm you eventually. Why? Why did they do this. The artillery doesnt require any micro, so why does defending against it require micro like that.
Somebody please give me an answer that makes sense.
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Interesting, so like a year after that topic, people still have the same opinion that arty is too strong but are silenced by the balance team, locking the topic before there is hardly any discussion.
I dont think the terrain of the map matters. But the size of the map for sure would matter. The bigger the map, the more likely that artillery will be built before enemy bases can be reached. Anyway my opinion hasnt changed. Hopefully I can find a mod that makes arty balanced, or ill just go back to playing vanilla.
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Well given how many people play FAF it's not surprising that you'll be able to find someone that thinks T3 arti is overpowered at any point in time.
That thread was also on the balance forums which have specific guidance that is meant to be followed.Anyway if you want an easy solution to defending your core base from 1 T3 arti, get a couple of T3 shields spaced out to cover your base, and assist each one with a bunch of T3 engineers (I've forgotten the best number, but around 12 is probably ok). It'll use up resources but you can cost efficiently defend against 1 T3 arti, and if you were performing evenly to your opponent until now you should have a lot of mass saved that was invested into experimentals/units that can now go and kill them while you hold off their T3 arti.
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The balance of FAF 'stops' at maps of size 20x20, anything beyond that is not properly balanced. A well tailored 20x20 map barely sees artillery because it is not worth the investment (70K+) compared to other strategies.
Looking at a replay of yours - your play style is very turtle-like. This is not critique - you play the way you want. But as a consequence you are artificially extending the game. As an example, take this game:
At this point you have tech 3 extractors. You could've easily made bricks and an experimental to decimate the AIs long before any tech 3 artillery is even being built. But you don't - and as a consequence the game gets into a state that you wouldn't usually be in as a competitive player.
@maudlin27 noticed how a strat is hover bombing to take out a spider bot - impressive
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I don't know any mods to help with this problem for you, but you could also check out the LOUD community. They have a completely different approach to the game that you may like. You can find them here:
-https://www.moddb.com/mods/loud-ai-supreme-commander-forged-alliance
Their Discord is quite active.
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@maudlin27 Yes this is my most recent game, and Im playing with the M27 AI. This AI always builds T3 artillery and is very aggressive, thats why I have a turtle style. Its more efficient to build static defenses against all their spam. Ive played with this AI several times, I like it, its quite challenging, but my issue is that the artillery is so devastating compared to how it used to be. Anyway Its not a perfect AI though, as my AI team mates tend to neglect defenses and crumble quickly when their units get wiped out, meanwhile I try to help them out by building some turrets for them. I do send experimentals to try and hit their bases, but the the AI is quick to respond with crapton of bombers and gunships to take them out. Its a very good AI, probably the best, and Ive tried nearly all of them over the years. I usually fair better if I put myself on the front line. But yea... the artillery. A T3 is wrecking my base like a mavor. Doesnt seem balanced to me.
Also, @Jip, Im not a competitive player nor do i have interest in becoming one. I just like playing against the AI for fun and be able to pause the game anytime I wish.
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I'm not stating you should be. I'm trying to explain what the status quo is at FAF. My advice to try out LOUD still stands, they are a PvE community that is in general casual.
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No I dont care to try a different approach. I like FAF. I just dont like what has been done to artillery since the last time I played. I also just realized bricks have been nerfed as well. I dont know why though. Instead of just telling me to cope or go somewhere else, why not answer my question as to why they were changed. Because I thought they were just fine.
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You can always make your own balance mod. You can learn more about that here, which is written by Balthazar.
Instead of just telling me to cope or go somewhere else, why not answer my question as to why they were changed. Because I thought they were just fine.
I didn't tell you to cope. I merely tried to explain the status quo of FAF. I don't know the ins and outs of balance changes by heart. You could try searching it here: http://patchnotes.faforever.com/
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I don't agree with Teralitha's attitude but I do agree T3 arty seems a bit too powerful now. Especially as a cybran player it just seems that even with many engineers and hives assisting, t3 arty seems undefensible. To be honest in years past it never seemed to me like T3 arty was actually a game ender - a major nuisance probably but it could be countered somewhat comfortably.
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As far as I'm aware T3 arti haven't been changed since I've been playing (coming up to 2 years now I think), but I can't speak to before that. In terms of M27 always building T3 arti, it'll largely be down to what its opponents do - it's meant to get T3 arti if dealing with someone who is turtling heavily and/or in the late game, but you can vary the setup to vary the chances. For example, just play against 1 M27AI (if you're against multiple then one of them is more likely to try and eco and rush a t3 arti), or a map where navy plays a bigger role. On maps with a chokepoint (assuming 1 M27AI per chokepoint such as 2v2 on Fields of Isis) it's also likely to invest resources into turtling which in turn can delay when it gets the arti.
In terms of T3 arti being strong though, it's only on certain maps where I'd see it as strong (dual gap, astro and similar). Almost every 4v4 TMM I've played (I'm around 1k rank so have had games with players from negative rank to 2k rank in them from time to time) it's ended before getting to the stage of game where T3 arti would have been effective because of how big an investment it is - i.e. it's generally far better to invest that same mass into navy (on a naval map) or on a land experimental, even though team games by their nature favour ecoing more (since most teammates will help defend an attack but won't support an attack, meaning if you try and be aggressive you often end up fighting more than one player at once).
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@teralitha lol go answer your question yourself? Are you paying for anyone to spend their time answering your questions? Don't expect people to help you if you are this rude.
T3 arty is the closest thing to garbage most of the time. T3 Shields counter it hard and its an insane investment. someone could make 1 t3 arty and you could make 2 experimentals and just destroy their whole base before the arty is done.
FAF Website Developer
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You could get t3 arty of your own
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@femboy I would like disagree to it being garbage. Its just the case where it is truly good decision is seen past 2 or 3 t4s.
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So, Im looking at one of my own replays and I noticed something. One of my AI team is getting hit by arty but their shields were tanking it no problem. Serphim I believe. But when arty was hitting my base, I was getting wrecked. I play cybran. So... perhaps its not the arty. Maybe my shields just suck ass.
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Cyb do and are expensive per HP, make sure you are getting the full upgrade to the sheilds
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Yes I always fully upgrade them. I watched this serphim base for awhile. They had just 5 heavy shields covering their whole base and it wasnt until later when the enemy had 3 arties and a novax hitting them when their base finally cracked. Damn... my cybran shields must be really garbage....
