SACUs and Factories Upgrades questions

The Air Factories issue :

• The bottom (relative pooc. from the hydrocarbon) Air Fact. was upgraded Tier 2 then later Tier 3.
• The other ones : click on "direct" upgrade to tier 3.

Total = 4 Tier 3 Air Factories, but one of them does not behave like the 3 other ones !

BECAUSE THE FIRST ONE IS HQ A FUCKING HEADQUARTERS THAT YOU NEED TO EVEN ACCESS T3 AIR UNITS AND T3 TECH.
READ THE NAMES. Or better, remove that funny looking one and see if you can still make t3 air units in the other 3.

@manimal_ said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades seem to be bugged:

The Air Factories issue :

• The bottom (relative pooc. from the hydrocarbon) Air Fact. was upgraded Tier 2 then later Tier 3.
• The other ones : click on "direct" upgrade to tier 3.

Total = 4 Tier 3 Air Factories, but one of them does not look like the 3 other ones !

it is not about HOW they got upgraided, that is about them being very different. (HQ and non HQ)
Well mostly it is a technical thing, because again, in all RTS i know double clikcing units only selects exactly the same units and t3 Air factory is not the same as t3 HQ factory, if you lose your HQ all your t3 air factories will not be able to produce units

what you are talking about i beleave is a convinience to be able to select them all to queue units, but so far in FAF double clikcing units only selects exactly the same units
it is maybe possible to fix if community sees the need for it. However you do need to understand that HQ is different and sometimes it is ok that it is not get selected with regular factories (for example when you want to selfdestruct them)

@Manimal_

https://wiki.faforever.com/en/Changes-from-steam
https://wiki.faforever.com/en/Game-Modifications-(Mods)#integrated-mods

@zlo said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades questions:

@manimal_ said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades questions:

The build menu within the Quantum Gates has changed.

Change since when? that thing was in FAF since very long time.

A very long time indeed when I've left the game, since the begining of FAF.

One can select some SACU upgrades or to build some SACUs.

Those are not upgraides, but a preset of upgraides.

upgrades, with no "i". Beware of typoes
Remember when I said my skills are low in english...
Anyways, you trying to play on words...

Once one click on an upgrade, it immediately builds up the SACU with this upgrade.

yes it builds SACU preset with some preset of upgraides (it can be 1 upgraide or multiple)

For your information, I've created Laboratories for Experimental Wars and this kind of feature seems to be inspired by my works.
So what are you trying to tell me ?

Now build up a SACU with no upgrades and then upgrade it with the SAME upgrade
like the 1st SACU... One can't select them all by double clicking.

Yes, unfortunately that how it works right now. Upgraides don't change the unit itself and don't add to unit's cost. They are still different units and have different cost and different wreckage and will give different veteranicy to opponent units and will gain veteranicy differently. Sounds like a very minor problem and not sure if anyone gonna fix that.

For sure this "separation" system sounds inconsistent in its current state ! It really deserves a fix.

A similar bug occurs with the factories of any kind.

That is bit weird. I see you have 3 t3 air support factories and 1 t3 air HQ factory
if you doble click support factories it should select all support factories

What HQ factory ?
Is this some kind of "new" feature ?
If yes then It's useless to my eyes, because it brigns nothing more than other factories of the same tier.

On the top they don't look all the same in spite of their upgrades.

can't comment on that... no idea about visual differences and atm it kinda looks like you are zoomed out that models might get replaced with lower quality ones

I can comment on that with a Log full of errors....

@manimal_

You seem to not be familar with sacu presets so i wanted to explain it as much as i can, and yea my english is not perfect.

People do like that you can double click all RAS presets and Rambos don't get selected and vice versa.

Fixing this separation and inconsistency would be interesting,

But as i understand that would require to create new units for every possible combination of upgrades and whenever unit gets upgraded you would need to chage it to a new unit and transfer all veteranicy and HP and whatever else to a new unit.
So for example you could take rambo and remove upgrades and upgrade RAS and it would become a completely different unit - then all similarly upgraded SACUs will get selected, because they actually will be a same unit.

One possible downside i see is what to do if rambo got to 99% of his veteranicy... it could remove one of his upgrades and get a veteranicy level? what happens if after that it gets an upgraide again? will it get demoted?
(different presets have different unit cost, so upgrades if upgades gonna change unit cost they gonna affect veteranicy and currently veteranicy is base on unit costs e.g. most of the time to get to level 1 unit need to kill 2x of its mass cost)

Is it circus? Or am i in a wrong place?

@zlo said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades questions:

@manimal_

You seem to not be familar with sacu presets so i wanted to explain it as much as i can, and yea my english is not perfect.

People do like that you can double click all RAS presets and Rambos don't get selected and vice versa.

Fixing this separation and inconsistency would be interesting,

But as i understand that would require to create new units for every possible combination of upgrades and whenever unit gets upgraded you would need to chage it to a new unit and transfer all veteranicy and HP and whatever else to a new unit.
So for example you could take rambo and remove upgrades and upgrade RAS and it would become a completely different unit - then all similarly upgraded SACUs will get selected, because they actually will be a same unit.

One possible downside i see is what to do if rambo got to 99% of his veteranicy... it could remove one of his upgrades and get a veteranicy level? what happens if after that it gets an upgraide again? will it get demoted?
(different presets have different unit cost, so upgrades if upgades gonna change unit cost they gonna affect veteranicy and currently veteranicy is base on unit costs e.g. most of the time to get to level 1 unit need to kill 2x of its mass cost)

I'm still in Fa vanilla way to go / way to do.
Some "new" features sound useless to me such as HQs...
And as I already stated, this was my very first game through FAF.
(yeah it took me a bit more than 10 years to join in, so what ?)

Your suggestion would make it difficult indeed to have such very very accurate selections.
I've made Labs that works around Vet levels and the selection should stick to that...
Try a game with ExpWars v2_8_2 out of FAF, with no other mods enabled ... and then enjoy.

FYI: I'm reworking ExpWars for making it compatible with FAF.
I don't know when it'll be ready. Probably in october 2022.

@manimal_
If you think HQs are useless then maybe you just have never played teamgames on heavy eco 20 km maps.... like Seton's Clutch 4v4.

Air players on that map need to spam ASFs.
You know, in vanilla the most efficient way to make them is to make a t3 air factory and assist it with as many engineers as you can fit around it. Usually it was around 300-400 engineers

Then you maybe add another factory with another 400 enginners... mostly because you just can't fit more engineers around your 1rst factory

and that lags the hell out of the game.
8 players and each of them has at least 200 enginers
and people often used this trick to assist all engineers to one of engineer and afaik that creates even more lag

similar happens to all t3 factories, in vanilla they are just very expensive so you never make more than one and assist that one with as much engineers as you can and that kinda sucks. and engy mod fixes that with HQs and t2 t3 engineer buffs.

Now you can make more than one factory because cheap factories are available and can make use of ajacency bonuses
and asissting with t2 or t3 engineers is not as bad as it used to be ESPECIALLY because you need a t2 or t3 factory to make those t2 and t3 engineers and that became much cheaper

new meta with t3 air fac + t3 pgen grids made late game much more playable

Assisting with engies is for the factions that don't have Kennel like units...

CATEGORIES can help a lot in units selection (to make groups)
Coupled with some variables such as Veterancy Level and other ones, this could give rather accurate reults...

@manimal_ said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades seem to be bugged:

I've made Labs that works around Vet levels and the selection should stick to that...

Not sure what that means sorry

Try a game with ExpWars v2_8_2 out of FAF, with no other mods enabled ... and then enjoy.

I would probably play on FAF since there are more people to play with and less bugs, exploits and stuff like that.
And UI improvements and UI mods, rating system to make games more balanced, map and mod vaults, map and mod autodownload, original game does not even allow to rebind keys.

If you are remaking your mod you should make it compatible with FAF... and ideally with other mods

i don't play with mods but people who like mods often enable several mods

@manimal_ said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades seem to be bugged:

Assisting with engies is for the factions that don't have Kennel like units...

Nah, t1 engineers are more mass and power efficient, if you don't use those you will be at disadvantage.

maybe cybran Hives are not that bad, but other factions don't have them.
kennels are more expensive than hives and can get killed by air (especially if you don't play with FAF :P, on FAF asfs can't target drones so your base doesn't get destroyed by asf fire)

You did not get what I said :

I've orignaly made the mod ExpWars in a way that change some game mechanics (among other things)
This is why it 's been released first as an exclusive mod. For many reasons.

I've made it later as non-exclusive, assuming people won"t complain in case of bugs by mixing up mods that are not compatible together...

So do not even try to run it in FAF "as is" or you would waste your time given it won't run properly.
As I've written above : I'm working on making it compatible... and it's not yet ready to be released.

@zlo said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades questions:

@manimal_ said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades questions:

Assisting with engies is for the factions that don't have Kennel like units...

Nah, t1 engineers are more mass and power efficient, if you don't use those you will be at disadvantage.

maybe cybran Hives are not that bad, but other factions don't have them.
kennels are more expensive than hives and can get killed by air (especially if you don't play with FAF :P, on FAF asfs can't target drones so your base doesn't get destroyed by asf fire)

I assume you know how to make resources generator "cells"
e.g. 2 x T3 Pgen + 2 T3 MassGen in a cross-like shape.

Repeat until you reach 1 k of mass

@manimal_ said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades seem to be bugged:

I assume you know how to make resources generator "cells"
e.g. 2 x T3 Pgen + 2 T3 MassGen in a cross-like shape.
Repeat until you reach 1 k of mass

Yes that works if you either have no opponents or they just idle.
If your opponent actually tries to defeat you, you will lose if you build kennels and he spams t1 engies.

@manimal_ said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades seem to be bugged:

@zlo said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades seem to be bugged:

@manimal_ said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades seem to be bugged:

Assisting with engies is for the factions that don't have Kennel like units...

Nah, t1 engineers are more mass and power efficient, if you don't use those you will be at disadvantage.

maybe cybran Hives are not that bad, but other factions don't have them.
kennels are more expensive than hives and can get killed by air (especially if you don't play with FAF :P, on FAF asfs can't target drones so your base doesn't get destroyed by asf fire)

I assume you know how to make resources generator "cells"
e.g. 2 x T3 Pgen + 2 T3 MassGen in a cross-like shape.

Repeat until you reach 1 k of mass

not sure how resource farms have anything to do with factory assisting and efficiency of buildpower...

at 1rst you would have to assist those air factories anyway, because if you don't then you get bombed, and even after when you made those resource farms it is still more mass-efficient to assist with t1 engineers (we are talking about vanilla FA here 1.5.3599 i assume where you need just 3 t2 pgens to start making t3 air)t)

you make t3 air probably before all your mexes are on t2 and before t3 pgen and before t3 engineer... you need to help your team instead of going toward 1k resources

@zlo said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades seem to be bugged:

if i could set that if i double clicl ASF or interceptor and all faction ASF or inteceptors get selected

Good idea. It should be that way.

i think the hotkey "select similar units" does that
not sure tho

Hey did you really have to write that? As a newcomer I really don't feel welcome here, I mean sure, some people greeted me, I also got 3 trainer propositions in PM and some tutorial links I guess, I don't really remember, there were too many. Anyway this place really is hostile, I was just poking around and you have to come in all self-important with your sarcasm. It's so hard to fit in here, everyone always refuses to talk to newbies and every time I try to ask a question I only get arrogant responses. Why is it so hard to just answer a simple question? I mean yea, some do, but did you have to add your own "meme" on top? Why not talk like a normal person and respect your partner in conversation, Jesus. This place really isn't what it says it is, I hope I'm the only one facing such inexcusable experiences.

This thread makes my head hurt