SACUs and Factories Upgrades questions

Manimal_

@rezy-noob said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades questions:

how is that an issue? you want rambo and ras SACU's to go kill a mega?
spoiler alert-a warcrime in the face of sacrificing innocent boys will happen.

Please use simple words... english is not my native language.

Resistance

having different sacus presets counted as different units is good

TheVVheelboy

Your shitty car analogy doesn't work really work. Cuz barebone sacu is a Volvo 240 Vagon while Rambo boy is a fucking 240 with dropped in V8 putting out 500Hp and other mods. Those aren't the same cars.

Manimal_

@rezy-noob said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades questions:

having different sacus presets counted as different units is good

According to some of you : It is OK because you said so ? D'oh !

Read again this https://forum.faforever.com/post/34792 (the EDIT)

Resistance

hopefully you are familiar with aeon sacrifice system before pointing out that "they are the same bruh!"

TheVVheelboy

Nobody upgrades SACU's anyway. The presets have been fine-tuned already and the last reason of leaving different wrecks is also gonna get removed soon enough if everything goes fine on the patch side.

TheVVheelboy

Also ffs, no T3 HQ is not the same as fucking T3 support factory.

Manimal_

@rezy-noob said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades questions:

hopefully you are familiar with aeon sacrifice system before pointing out that "they are the same bruh!"

What are you saying about Aeon sacrifice ?
Is this some kind of trolling ?

What again with HQ ? pfff

Sounds like both of you are high on weed...

Resistance

1)preset SACU's and upgraded SACU's have different values when sacrificing them, if you start selecting them as 1 unit you will have 0 clue what's the final value for them
2)do you see any of my posts related to hq's?
3)get informed, then post

ZLO

lol calm down

sacu presets are technically different units - no ambiguity here (edit: they have different icons, costs, names, codes ect ect)

That is why they don't all get selected on double click

But, yes, you can argue that all sacus are sacus and maybe they SHOULD be all selected by double click

you can also argue against that by giving an example that you would not want to double click your rambos and accidentally send RAS sacus to fight experimentals.

pretty much the same with HQ and support factories... anyway would be cool to have an option to be able to get similar units selected by double click, but we don't have that option. And it was never planned cause people never complained about that before.

Maybe making a UI mod would be possible

Edit: if i could set that if i double clicl ASF or interceptor and all faction ASF or inteceptors get selected i would probably never learned select all fighters hotkey xD

Manimal_

In the case I've exposed above, there is NO "Rambo" ! At all...
Those are just builders with exact same upgrades, but through 3 different pathes.

I agree that we prefer to not mix fighters and builders, but in my report above the game can not distinguish the builders between them all !
I mean it can not select them all because of pseudo-differences !
This is what I call a bug ...

What about the factories that don't look like similar ?
Is this John Rambo's fault again ???

EDIT: I'm trying to make myself clear. I hope this was clear enough.

Jip

The behavior described by @Manimal_ can be implemented using a UI mod, the selection one is reasonable trivial (do not try to use double click, just use a hotkeys that selects on screen). Adjusting the construction menu is less trivial.

Manimal_

On 10 SACUS, 6 of them are "straight SACUs (no upgrades at all) + 2 SACUs with a Drone + 2 SACUs with Econ upgrade :

The 6 first SACUs had the Econ + Drone + Laser upgrades.
The 2 SACUs with a Drone had the Econ + Laser upgrades.
The 2 last SACUs with a Econ had the Drone + Laser upgrades.

Total = 10 SACUs with Drone + Econ + Laser upgrades. (the ones of my screenshot above)

And I was unable to select them all as a group of similar units.
Dang !

ZLO

@manimal_ said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades seem to be bugged:

The build menu within the Quantum Gates has changed.

Change since when? that thing was in FAF since very long time.

One can select some SACU upgrades or to build some SACUs.

Those are not upgraides, but a preset of upgraides

Once one click on an upgrade, it immediately builds up the SACU with this upgrade.

yes it builds SACU preset with some preset of upgraides (it can be 1 upgraide or multiple)

Now build up a SACU with no upgrades and then upgrade it with the SAME upgrade
like the 1st SACU... One can't select them all by double clicking.

Yes, unfortunately that how it works right now. Upgraides don't change the unit itself and don't add to unit's cost. They are still different units and have different cost and different wreckage and will give different veteranicy to opponent units and will gain veteranicy differently. Sounds like a very minor problem and not sure if anyone gonna fix that.

Edit: this is a consiquence of FAF adding those presets, without that you would only have "naked" sacus that you would upgraide manually afterward and they all would get selected by double click.
FAF wanted to increase popularity of sacus, so presets were added cause nobody has time to upgraide them manually

A similar bug occurs with the factories of any kind.

That is bit weird. I see you have 3 t3 air support factories and 1 t3 air HQ factory
if you doble click support factories it should select all support facotories

On the top they don't look all the same in spite of their upgrades.

can't comment on that... no idea about visual differences and atm it kinda looks like you are zoomed out that models might get replaced with lower quality ones

Manimal_

The Air Factories issue :

The bottom (relative pooc. from the hydrocarbon) Air Fact. was upgraded Tier 2 then later Tier 3.
The other ones : click on "direct" upgrade to tier 3.

Total = 4 Tier 3 Air Factories, but one of them does not behave like the 3 other ones !

TheVVheelboy

BECAUSE THE FIRST ONE IS HQ A FUCKING HEADQUARTERS THAT YOU NEED TO EVEN ACCESS T3 AIR UNITS AND T3 TECH.
READ THE NAMES. Or better, remove that funny looking one and see if you can still make t3 air units in the other 3.

ZLO

@manimal_ said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades seem to be bugged:

The Air Factories issue :

The bottom (relative pooc. from the hydrocarbon) Air Fact. was upgraded Tier 2 then later Tier 3.

The other ones : click on "direct" upgrade to tier 3.

Total = 4 Tier 3 Air Factories, but one of them does not look like the 3 other ones !

it is not about HOW they got upgraided, that is about them being very different. (HQ and non HQ)
Well mostly it is a technical thing, because again, in all RTS i know double clikcing units only selects exactly the same units and t3 Air factory is not the same as t3 HQ factory, if you lose your HQ all your t3 air factories will not be able to produce units

what you are talking about i beleave is a convinience to be able to select them all to queue units, but so far in FAF double clikcing units only selects exactly the same units
it is maybe possible to fix if community sees the need for it. However you do need to understand that HQ is different and sometimes it is ok that it is not get selected with regular factories (for example when you want to selfdestruct them)

MostLostNoob

@Manimal_

https://wiki.faforever.com/en/Changes-from-steam
https://wiki.faforever.com/en/Game-Modifications-(Mods)#integrated-mods

Manimal_

@zlo said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades questions:

@manimal_ said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades questions:

The build menu within the Quantum Gates has changed.

Change since when? that thing was in FAF since very long time.

A very long time indeed when I've left the game, since the begining of FAF.

One can select some SACU upgrades or to build some SACUs.

Those are not upgraides, but a preset of upgraides.

upgrades, with no "i". Beware of typoes
Remember when I said my skills are low in english...
Anyways, you trying to play on words...

Once one click on an upgrade, it immediately builds up the SACU with this upgrade.

yes it builds SACU preset with some preset of upgraides (it can be 1 upgraide or multiple)

For your information, I've created Laboratories for Experimental Wars and this kind of feature seems to be inspired by my works.
So what are you trying to tell me ?

Now build up a SACU with no upgrades and then upgrade it with the SAME upgrade
like the 1st SACU... One can't select them all by double clicking.

Yes, unfortunately that how it works right now. Upgraides don't change the unit itself and don't add to unit's cost. They are still different units and have different cost and different wreckage and will give different veteranicy to opponent units and will gain veteranicy differently. Sounds like a very minor problem and not sure if anyone gonna fix that.

For sure this "separation" system sounds inconsistent in its current state ! It really deserves a fix.

A similar bug occurs with the factories of any kind.

That is bit weird. I see you have 3 t3 air support factories and 1 t3 air HQ factory
if you doble click support factories it should select all support factories

What HQ factory ?
Is this some kind of "new" feature ?
If yes then It's useless to my eyes, because it brigns nothing more than other factories of the same tier.

On the top they don't look all the same in spite of their upgrades.

can't comment on that... no idea about visual differences and atm it kinda looks like you are zoomed out that models might get replaced with lower quality ones

I can comment on that with a Log full of errors....

ZLO

@manimal_

You seem to not be familar with sacu presets so i wanted to explain it as much as i can, and yea my english is not perfect.

People do like that you can double click all RAS presets and Rambos don't get selected and vice versa.

Fixing this separation and inconsistency would be interesting,

But as i understand that would require to create new units for every possible combination of upgrades and whenever unit gets upgraded you would need to chage it to a new unit and transfer all veteranicy and HP and whatever else to a new unit.
So for example you could take rambo and remove upgrades and upgrade RAS and it would become a completely different unit - then all similarly upgraded SACUs will get selected, because they actually will be a same unit.

One possible downside i see is what to do if rambo got to 99% of his veteranicy... it could remove one of his upgrades and get a veteranicy level? what happens if after that it gets an upgraide again? will it get demoted?
(different presets have different unit cost, so upgrades if upgades gonna change unit cost they gonna affect veteranicy and currently veteranicy is base on unit costs e.g. most of the time to get to level 1 unit need to kill 2x of its mass cost)