Aeon: effort vs. reward (average-ish player?)
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I cruised to 1k with Aeon, and the overarching feeling I get is that effort per reward does not feel good relative to other factions. Take this with a grain of salt, as I'm sure part of it comes down to my APM and situational awareness. That said, there are a few particular aspects that I feel are not so much 'high skill - high reward', but rather 'maximum try hard for average gains'
ACU
Issue: The 2 gun upgrades cost an extra 200M & 6,000E. For this, you get 5 meters range, and that's it (no change to speed). The extra range is nice when you learn to manage the sweet spot (I consider that to be a good instance of 'skill = reward'), but it doesn't quite feel like '200 mass & 6k energy' worthwhile.Suggestion: I'm sure that buffing the guns would cause a riot, so I suggest reducing the costs just a bit.
In my dreams: Single nano-repair on the right arm. This would allow for a 'brick wall' defender build; engineering, nano, shield. Plus it makes sense thematically, given that Aeon originally worshiped the Seraphim and tried to emulate their tech.
Double Chrono - I don't know what this would look like, but cost should be similar to Seraphim's AoE upgrade; a T3 resource investment.Aurora
Issue: If you are caught off-guard for just a second, your T1 army is dead without inflicting corresponding damage. I feel this is a prime example of 'not high skill, but maximum effort required at all times'.Suggestion: Increase movement speed a bit. If you are rushed and ~5 seconds delayed responding, Aurora should be able to moderately retreat, saving at least some of the army.
Mercy
Issue: Perfection or death. As I've started playing higher-level games, I've found that nobody neglects mobile AA. A single T1 anti-air can defend against 2-3 Mercy. When you compare the relative costs, that seems incredibly silly. At that point, a full Tac Missile base is a better investment.Suggestion: Increase Mercy's hitpoints such that it can withstand at least a few volleys of T1 anti-air. A single T2 AA can destroy it in 1 pass, sure. But T1 AA should require several shots per Mercy to make the unit viable.
Galactic Colossus
Issue: The GC trades all utility functions for hitpoints and the suction claws. At the T4 stage where groups of 10+ Brick & Percy are common, hitpoints quickly amounts to very little (doubly so when the enemy can casually throw away a group of Strats & Gunships on the GC).Suggestion: Consider the variety of utility that other T4's get; Stealth, Torpedo, Range, Anti-Air, Shield, Omni-directional firing. GC has the suction claw, that's it. I therefore suggest (if at all possible) buffing the claws. Right now they are simply unreliable and slow. A faster recharge between grabs and the ability to reliably use both claws at the same time would help a lot, I feel.
In my dreams: Put the head on a swivel so it can attack while retreating and/or flanked.
Czar
Issue: Remains the game's most expensive bomb. Great when you already have air control, but that's true of all T4. The issue I've found with Czar is that it lacks mobility. Other T4 air can easily 'hit and run'. Czar is the only unit that must be effectively stationary to attack.Suggestion: To address this, I suggest buffing the Czar's 'pickup speed'. It's 0-60, if you will, reducing the time needed to go from 'idle' to 'zooming across the map'. I see no reason why Czar should not have a 'hit and run' option like the other T4 Air.
That's all I got, thank you if you actually made it this far. Note- I have not played enough Navy to offer any critique of Aeon's arsenal there.
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I couldnt help but notice that you dont know exactly what EFFORT you should do. For example: you say that the aurora sucks, but you should keep in mind that if you do quick transition to blazes you suddenly crush the whole map if your opponent does not follow your tech transition in time. The same goes with every point you made. You just put effort in a wrong place
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Aeon gun's increased range is massive - you can reliably kite enemy guncoms with it, and they're forced to either hope you slip up with the kiting (letting them get within range), have a load more nearby units to charge at you, or get enough T2 PD up to stop you. Oh and a cost decrease to gun upgrade is a buff to the gun upgrade.
Aurora I don't like but it does at least give a clear difference to the other factions who all have a very similar main tank.
Mercy - discussed a load in a separate threat - I'd prefer the oppsosite of your suggestion - instead of making them survive against MAA, make them die to MAA. IMO if the enemy has MAA by their com it should counter mercies. Making Mercies able to tank T1 MAA shots for a while would make them insane.
GC - It gets omni and the claws, which are really powerful against some matchups. As an extreme (unlikely) scenario - I can beat other land experimentals with certain SACU mass equivalent combinations. Try that against a GC and it'll easily crush them due to its claws [Edit: Forgot that the sandbox scenario I was recalling was UEF Shield SACUs with Percies underneath them and for some reason thought the claws got the SACUs - instead it got the shielded percies]. It also easily beats a monkeylord, and its 'crush when walking' is more meaningful due to its huge HP.
Czar - compare this to soulripper, there's just no contest. It's incredibly versatile - you can charge at the enemy com under shields with SAMs nearby and kill it (try that with a soulripper and you've just given them a big mass donation). You can kite enemy asfs with it; you can use it in a more attritional style thanks to its shield; you can do surprise attacks by storing air units inside it, etc.
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Lets talk about aeon gun, yes it is only 5 meter additional range, but think how much safer you could overcharge bricks or percies.
Now about mercy, if you perhaps did not notice that eaxh rts uses default priority system and in air unit category highest priority has torpedo bomber which basicly means that for 270 mass you can mecry anyone.
Now about czar, did you notice its insane hp bar and insane sam range? Id like you to notice that itw flying fortress that can brun bases or any other land t4 and it should help you win air.
Now about gc, you simply dont understand its strong points, as you noticed so far there is no unit that would win you a game without proper support, for gc it is t3 harb army, gc range helps you freely inflict damage on every army composition besides snipers, that means that you are forced to engage gc with your t3 units that have much higher cost than a harb and the same dps as a harb. Notice that snipers will not reallly help because they would have no shield since aeon army has a shiled damage based unit.
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Not going to argue against every single point, but in general:
Gun is alrdy insanely OP. If your ACU is at front, your attention is usually there 90% of the time -> You are able to micro it. If your opponent is not Aeon and you both have gun, you can just deal free damage the whole time while your opponent can't do shit against it. Only Cybran with the stealth-upgrade can counter gun at least a bit.
Auroras have hover and way more range than any other tanks. Their whole purpose is to just defend certain points, if you make them faster no other faction has the slightest chance of pushing them.
Mercys are already overpowered as fuck. Their hitbox is broken so flak and MAA sometimes don't even hit them, once not scouted your ACU can be dead in a fraction of a second. They can be used to kill other mexes around the map or just snipe basically anything stationary if you get through. You can't even dodge that shit. Giving them even more HP makes it the most overpowered unit in the whole game since you can have them so early on. Take a larger teamgame for example. 4 players of each team fighting at front, maybe two chilling at the back. If one of them rushes mercies and if they have even more hp, the other team is never going to be able to push again
Like it can be that some of the suggestions might improve the gameplay for lower ranked people since they simply can't use all of the mechanics yet like they're intented to be used. But it will absolutely kill the balance for basically any higher ranked lobby. And balancing the game in order to improve it for only the lower ranked ones shouldn't be the goal.
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I suppose I shouldn't be surprised by the instant toxicity, but I am disappointed.
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@Immortal-D What is toxic about providing feedback on you suggestions? Why post them if u dont want to discuss it?
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Aeon ACU has OP gun upgrades for teamgames and an even more OP early game survival upgrade (easy to recharge shield faster than enemy gun acu can kill you). The effort here is winning the game if enemy plays into your advantage rather than teching into PD, air control, or late t2 upgrade like UEF shield.
Aurora: consider making flares
Mercy: lol
GC: Chicken is the AOE bot that is good for kiling clumps, GC is the anti-t4 bot that is good for dealing with enemy bots. It is specifically not good for crowd control as once a unit is behind it the thing is dead.
czar: czar is like the most decently balanced air t4 rn, only issue is that it should get an e cost nerf same as all the others so dudes stop building them on 2 t3 pgens.
Aeon is like the most comfy faction in terms of feeling you always had a response for something. Destros, shields, blazes, flak, cruiser, tempest, gunship, flare, aurora, acu, obsidian, sniper, absolver
Only thing aeon gets caught lacking in is boy upgrades
@maudlin27 said in Aeon: effort vs. reward (average-ish player?):
GC - It gets omni and the claws, which are really powerful against some matchups. As an extreme (unlikely) scenario - I can beat other land experimentals with certain SACU mass equivalent combinations. Try that against a GC and it'll easily crush them due to its claws. It also easily beats a monkeylord, and its 'crush when walking' is more meaningful due to its huge HP.
GC can’t suck up boys but it’s better than chickens in dealing with boys due to them being fast enough to dodge the aoe ball. Worse than mega though.
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Well the thing is you want to buff aeon units with no counter part where there is all the cool playstyle of aeon which is in low tech tier basicly something like low health-high damage (auroras-gun com-mercy...)
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@immortal-d said in Aeon: effort vs. reward (average-ish player?):
I suppose I shouldn't be surprised by the instant toxicity, but I am disappointed.
Can you mark the part of the answers you are referring to pls?
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@sladow-noob said in Aeon: effort vs. reward (average-ish player?):
@immortal-d said in Aeon: effort vs. reward (average-ish player?):
I suppose I shouldn't be surprised by the instant toxicity, but I am disappointed.
Can you mark the part of the answers you are referring to pls?
@yellownoob said in Aeon: effort vs. reward (average-ish player?):
I couldnt help but notice that you dont know exactly what EFFORT you should do. For example: you say that the aurora sucks, >
I never said Aurora sucks. I'm glad he notices I don't understand effort.
@yellownoob said in Aeon: effort vs. reward (average-ish player?):
Lets talk about aeon gun, yes it is only 5 meter additional range, but think how much safer you could overcharge bricks or percies.
Now about mercy, if you perhaps did not notice that eaxh rts uses default priority system and in air unit category highest priority has torpedo bomber which basicly means that for 270 mass you can mecry anyone.
Now about czar, did you notice its insane hp bar and insane sam range? Id like you to notice that itw flying fortress that can brun bases or any other land t4 and it should help you win air.
Now about gc, you simply dont understand its strong points, as you noticed so far there is no unit that would win you a game without proper support, for gc it is t3 harb army, gc range helps you freely inflict damage on every army composition besides snipers, that means that you are forced to engage gc with your t3 units that have much higher cost than a harb and the same dps as a harb. Notice that snipers will not reallly help because they would have no shield since aeon army has a shiled damage based unit.
Again, I clearly don't understand anything.
Upon rereading, really just that guy. Everyone else is moderately constructive.
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@immortal-d I think what he is saying is that instead of commenting on balance maybe a change to your mindset would have better results. Does not seem toxic to me.
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@immortal-d I think you misunderstood something. I heavily assume he's talking about the "ingame-effort", e.g. what the goal should be.
"You don't want to stay on t1 as Aeon anyway (aka rush Blazes) [...]"can feel you on the other post though lol
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@immortal-d We're not all native speakers and we're all from different cultures. I'm not reading anything toxic here - just people trying to express their opinions.
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D Deribus moved this topic from Suggestions on
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Moved to Balance Discussion
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How is this not a troll post, only thing missing is that he thinks snipers are bad and need a buff.
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@femtozetta My snipers always die to t1 bombers. Plz buff HP
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@sladow-noob better to give them a personal shield kappa
