The function of automatically building mass storage around the miners.

Broker

This is a very handy feature.
But there is a question. Why is an assisting order used when appointing a team of engineers?
As shown in the picture.
The disadvantage of this is that after the work has been done, the assist is not removed. All engineers remain attached to one. This is not very convenient.

The game, on the other hand, allows you to build buildings by a group of engineers without an assist order.
Maybe there is an opportunity to change this. Or add an option to the settings.

Jip

I see merit in this too, may even solve one of the issues that has been described on the forums by Blast. Could you make an issue on Github about it?

Jip

To come back to this, this is the code in question:

Callbacks.CapMex = function(data, units)
    local units = EntityCategoryFilterDown(categories.ENGINEER, SecureUnits(units))
    if not units[1] then return end

    local mex = GetEntityById(data.target)
    if not mex or not EntityCategoryContains(categories.MASSEXTRACTION * categories.STRUCTURE, mex) then return end

    if mex.Layer == 'Seabed' then return end

    local pos = mex:GetPosition()
    local msid
    local builder

    for _, unit in units do
        msid = LetterArray[unit:GetBlueprint().General.FactionName]..'b1106' -- The identity of the storage we'll build
        if unit:CanBuild(msid) then
            builder = unit
            break
        end
    end

    if not builder then return end

    local locations = {
        up = Vector(pos.x, pos.y, pos.z - 2),
        down = Vector(pos.x, pos.y, pos.z + 2),
        left = Vector(pos.x - 2, pos.y, pos.z),
        right = Vector(pos.x + 2, pos.y, pos.z),
    }

    for key, location in locations do
        if CanBuildInSpot(mex, msid, location) then
            IssueBuildMobile({builder}, location, msid, {})
        end
    end

    IssueGuard(units, builder)
end

The reason one is assisted is because there could be a unit that can not build the storage (e.g., the commander) - but I agree that typically it would be better to just issue the build order for all the units in question, and only let those that can't build it assist one that can. Or perhaps exclude that one all together - we'll have to discuss that.

veteranashe

I didn't know they assisted one engie

Exselsior

Would love to see this changed away from being an assist order, there are many times where I manually use my mex ring template to avoid having a random assisted engineer that I now have to think about. So many times have I selected an idle engineer to do something only to realize later that it was assisted by several other engineers due to this, or accidentally canceled Mex storage orders by selecting a couple of the engineers and accidentally selecting the one that they’re all assisting. Kind of annoying.

Jip

If an issue with a clear description as to what people want it to be can be made on Github before the weekend then I can get a version on FAF Develop with the altered behavior by Monday.

TheWeakie

Might also solve some weird bugs like your engies only building a few of the storages before moving on. Assist has always been buggy.

I also think it should be changed considering that 99/100 times you arent building storages with a t1 acu anyway. It adds way more issues than it solves

Jip

I'm all for the change and can make a draft, testable on FAF Develop after next Monday. Someone just needs to make the issue on Github with the behavior that we all deem reasonable

Uveso

I like the assist function.
Not only the commander can assist, although unable to build it himself.
Also Mantis, Harbinger Mark IV and Siren Class are able to assist. (i am not sure how many player use that)

So, unassist after building the storage would be my wish

arma473

I don't mind it. With UI Party I can see which engineer is the "lead" engineer. Also I can see that be pressing spacebar.

Jip

@uveso I'm not sure how we could time that. Also - the Siren class ?

We could keep the assist function for units that can't build it themselves. Perhaps exclude the ACU, as it allows various other behavior / capabilities (have ACU and some engineers in the same selection, where the engies first make the storages and the ACU starts working on something else).

arma473

@jip @uveso

I just tested it. Replay IDs #15507408 and #15507454

The Cybran Siren-class cruiser can assist the construction of buildings. I tested it with underwater mex upgrades and also with the construction of a T3 pgen on land (obviously, right at the water's edge).

It has 1 BP, exactly 1/5 of what a t1 engineer has. For a mex upgrading to t2, it spends 1 mass/second and 6 e/second, which is exactly 20% of what a T1 engie spends (5 mass and 30 e). Similarly, to assist a mex upgrading to t3, the engie uses 8 mass/second, and the siren uses 1.6. so, exactly 20%

The assistance does, as expected, increase the rate at which the upgrades complete

I think this is a bug, there's no in-game or lore reason why Sirens should have this ability.

I wondered if this might be because Sirens have air staging. So I tested other units/structures with air staging to see if they have the same bug (all t3 aircraft carriers, Atlantis, Czar, Fatboy, and the air staging structures). I was not able to replicate this bug with those other units. So there is something else going on with the Siren.

I wonder if the existence of a guard radius ("GuardReturnRadius = 130") makes a difference. Or perhaps it is the targeting laser weapon. Just a couple wild guesses. If I wasn't so lazy I could mod the game to remove the guard radius to test if that's what's causing it.

Tagada

Guardscanradius is not causing that, I will look into this.

Zeldafanboy

@arma473 said in The function of automatically building mass storage around the miners.:

@jip @uveso

I just tested it. Replay IDs #15507408 and #15507454

The Cybran Siren-class cruiser can assist the construction of buildings. I tested it with underwater mex upgrades and also with the construction of a T3 pgen on land (obviously, right at the water's edge).

It has 1 BP, exactly 1/5 of what a t1 engineer has. For a mex upgrading to t2, it spends 1 mass/second and 6 e/second, which is exactly 20% of what a T1 engie spends (5 mass and 30 e). Similarly, to assist a mex upgrading to t3, the engie uses 8 mass/second, and the siren uses 1.6. so, exactly 20%

The assistance does, as expected, increase the rate at which the upgrades complete

I think this is a bug, there's no in-game or lore reason why Sirens should have this ability.

I wondered if this might be because Sirens have air staging. So I tested other units/structures with air staging to see if they have the same bug (all t3 aircraft carriers, Atlantis, Czar, Fatboy, and the air staging structures). I was not able to replicate this bug with those other units. So there is something else going on with the Siren.

I wonder if the existence of a guard radius ("GuardReturnRadius = 130") makes a difference. Or perhaps it is the targeting laser weapon. Just a couple wild guesses. If I wasn't so lazy I could mod the game to remove the guard radius to test if that's what's causing it.

Top secret Cybran military intel here

Askaholic

It’s a feature, it’s just part of cybrans lore of sneakyness that it remains undocumented

Aulex

Inb4 people complaining hoards of cruisers building harms is broken

Broker

@jip yes i did
https://github.com/FAForever/fa/issues/3483#issue-1026614155

BlackYps

Not only the commander can assist, although unable to build it himself.
Also Mantis, Harbinger Mark IV and Siren Class are able to assist. (i am not sure how many player use that)

So, unassist after building the storage would be my wish

That would still leave us with the issue that it could cancel your orders if you select a part of the group to do something else and you happen to select the primary engie.
Also having your mantis build mass storage instead of fighting seems like a very odd game decision to me.

Tagada

Imo, remove the assist feature for engies and just make each engie receive the proper set or commands, the only use case for it is the ACU so if you can add the assist functionality for it it would be useful, if it's not possible then so be it, you can assist manually with your ACU.

Jip

I think the consensus is clear, but what about these situations:

What if you have engineers of multiple factions (say, full share after gifting)?
What if you have your ACU in your selection?
What if you have Mantis, a Siren (!) or other units that can assist in your selection?

Tagada mentioned about the latter, what are other opinions?

edit: an initial version can be found here on Github