Vanilla SupCom Aeon Mission 2: Machine Purge potential bug

[TEC769]

Hello,

In the 2nd Aeon mission in supcom's campaign, your first objective is to destroy a Cybran city. According to the wiki, when the city is 15% destroyed, the enemy ACU will launch a counterattack. However, in less than 5 minutes after game start, the Cybran commander will launch the "counterattack" regardless of any offense. Is this intended?

[TEC769]

I should also mention, in the vanilla game and videos on youtube of this mission being played, regardless of difficulty, have the original behavior of the counterattack triggering at 15% destruction. I made sure timed expansion was off, as that seemed like the natural cause, but the >5min counterattack persisted.

[speed2]

That's not a bug but a feature. I reworked the mission to be more challenging and that means the enemy units don't wait until you have everything set up. Wiki is not a reliable source of information for the FAF version of the missions.

[DDDX]

@speed2 Tried this mission in a CO_Op with my GF.

All I can say is ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?????????

Ok. So. Trying to get her into the game, she is new to RTS but loves me very much

So we try on medium difficulty and we get pwned by too many air drops. Also, as I was pumping out units and giving them to her to play with - she blew up both t2 mass extractors.

Ok, new game, we get both t2 mexes, I am reclaiming the air drops, and we are SLOOOWWWLLYYY advancing bit by bit...playing for 1 hour, manage to kill the second base in the corner, only to kill the -what I so foolishly thought was the main base- and discover that, after painstakingly playing for 2 hours with shitty t1 units, we get yet another part of the map and yet another mission. WTF?

This is the second Aeon mission.
In the first one, a new player had to make a mass extractor, pgen and 3 tanks.

In the second mission a player has to:
-secure all the parts of the island with aa to prevent air drops from owning them.
-deal with constant bomber intrusions
-manage to not kill, but grab, t2 mexes
-reclaim wrecks cause the mass is abysmal
-deal with patroling ships and invasion by a ton of ships right smack in the middle of his eco base
-kill a cruiser with very specific units, torp bombers (no other can really do the trick)
-clear out the base to the right AND fortify and hold it because...well, bombers and air transports and naval attacks...
-and after all that the map expands to make you upgrade all your mexes to t2, make t2 pds, to defend from even more attacks by superior technology which you have your shit t1 units to counter if they are away from the base
-to manage to snipe the ACU.

Did I get all that right?

Well how the fuck is a noob gonna do that, when they still barely has any clue why 1 tank has only a blue circle around it and another a red one???
They have no idea what reclaiming wrecks is, making engis patrol in drop zones, that flak turrets can be made on water so you can focus on frigates...or that freakin Auroras can hover and be used to cross water.

Really man...really. Compare that mission to the 2.nd mission of the UEF. You can finish 3 UEF missions in the time it takes to do the 1 Aeon's. Is that by design or...what the hell happened?

Don't get me wrong, it's a challenging mission...but it SHOULD NOT BE. Not for a 2.nd Aeon mission.

[FemtoZetta]

Ok. So. Trying to get her into the game, she is new to RTS but loves me very much

So we try on medium difficulty

Why play on medium difficulty when you are playing with a beginner? And why start with the Aeon campaign and not with UEF? Pretty sure that one is focused on teaching you stuff.

[speed2]

@dddx Could you try easy difficulty, if that is also too hard?

You could also post the replays, I could see much more of what happened and why from the replays.

First Aeon mission is a full naval map, so not sure how you managed to win it with 3 tanks...

Reclaim is a pretty big part of this game and using it will always give you significant advantage.

Aeon campaign can't really be compared to other campaigns and the other ones didnt go through the rework yet.
The balance of the original supreme commander was very different and the missions were reflecting it. You got one attack in 15 minutes so there were even reports about some missions being broken. I shifted it the other way around a lot. And hard difficulty can give a challenge to better players as well. That means that medium difficulty got also boosted.

Im not saying it's perfectly balanced, I've never played easy or medium difficulty as I can't judge how difficult they are. And I also got minimum feedback for that. Mostly switching ti easy difficulty was enough tho.

[DDDX]

@speed2 we played the UEF to mission 4, after which I thought to myself that it makes no sense to finish it only to play others from the start.

And I was right, the Aeon 1.st campaign starts with you not being able to build anything at all. "I am not going to hold your hand, now make a mass extractor" - and that's the only thing that you can build. Till you build it and you gain a pgen to build - nothing else.

Nice, slow, easy for new players to get the basics. Then the very second mission goes into berserk overdrive - expects you to reclaim like crazy, fortify your entire island - and then the other island in the corner - with AA vs multiple points of air drop entry, fight off air raids, tank raids, and naval raids simoultaniously, all while mass producing tons of t1 units and controlling them to destroy said raids....

I mean...it's just too much, man. Here's some feedback for you. A second mission of the Aeon should not take over 1 hour to finish. In the leaderboard i see 13 people finishing it in under 1 hour. Such a small number considering it shows the top 200 fastest, ain't it?
83 finishing in under 2 hours.

And that is provided you know exactly what to expect, what to do...a new player won't even know reclaiming is a thing. Simply put you made the mission no 2 feel like mission no5-6. Should be simpler, easier, not having you use t1 units to fight off waves of t2 units

As for why I played on normal - we played the UEF on normal, 1.st Aeon on normal - and no problems there, actually was too easy even for a beginner. Silly me for thinking it would continue like that.

One advice of constructive criticism - make the top area open together with the island on the right - to give the player a choice, either first deal with the island and secure your flank, or go straight for the north base, WHILE having the t2 PD option for added security.

Imma go play it on easy now, alone, just to see how easy it was. I have a feeling I'll have an easier time playing 1 vs 7 Easy Sorian AIs in Seton's clutch...

[Lunyshko]

@dddx noobs are not meant to play on medium i suppose from your description

[Lunyshko]

Imma go play it on easy now, alone, just to see how easy it was. I have a feeling I'll have an easier time playing 1 vs 7 Easy Sorian AIs in Seton's clutch...

[Lunyshko]

Pretty sure 1v7 ai on seton is not supposed to be that hard

[Treos]

What I want to know is, how did you get your girlfriend to play a SupCom mission for two hours?! Are you doing her laundry for the next two years? Did you forge documents proving that you’re the heir to the throne of Monaco?

[DDDX]

@treos hahahaha
No idea man...but it seems to be working. Just today played a small game of Setons lite (10x10km), I was in front babysitting her against a Sorian AI, while she was behind learning how to eco and why it's not a good thing to make a Duke while upgrading mexes to t3...also what adjecancy is, and does.
I am curious how she's gonna react to her first nuking of the enemy's base.

Btw I did try it on easy, alone, and I must say i had my work cut out for me. Granted, it was not a big challenge, but still I had to be on my toes and implement every thick in the book and still it lasted long.

It's a good remake of vanilla mission 2 but it simply lasts too long and demands too much of, PRESUMABLY, people who are most likely to go play the campaign and not rush straight to multiplayer carnage - new players.

Yea...any new player is utterly fucked if they try playing this map, even on easy diff.
I imagine some of them trying for 5-6 times, reaching further along only to be utterly pwned and saying screw this imma replay the UEF campaign that was good.

All I'm saying is make up your mind, are you making a tutorial mission in which you teach a new player how to use torpbombers vs navy and how to capture mexes and arties to hurt the enemy, or are you making a challenge for seasoned players?

You cannot have both. Or you can, but then your "easy" setting must be far easier.

Try it yourself, on easy, then tell me how extremely easy it was. Spoilers - it won't be.

All I'm saying here.