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Proposal: Paragon Innate Energy Storage

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  • S
    snowy801
    last edited by 28 Jul 2021, 20:50

    I understand your point, but I do not believe not building enough energy storage to account for a 1 second delay in energy production is a function of "setting up correctly" for a Paragon.

    Having enough build power, defenses (shields / air cover), leveraging space to expand upon other t4s, et al could all fit in what you're saying, but energy storage is just an unintuitive and (to my knowledge) unlabeled piece of hidden information that has no real impact on "difficulty of use." Really, energy storage is just taking a couple engies and drawing a line, at its heart.

    But in the end, this is my opinion and that is yours. I just want to propose the idea anyway.

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    • A
      arma473
      last edited by arma473 28 Jul 2021, 22:07

      A thing that would make the paragon easier to use is if it would also generate mass and energy for teammates of the paragon-owner. Then you don't have to do stuff like gift units to get the unit cap down, or gift mexes because they stop working when you have a paragon, or gift factories so the paragon-owner can produce out of them. It would make having a paragon more useful and make it easier for players to cooperate to spend the mass.

      This would also mean that a paragon is more useful if you have more teammates alive. So there would be a benefit to staying alive.

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      • V
        veteranashe
        last edited by 29 Jul 2021, 00:00

        So.....how does a para work then?

        A 1 Reply Last reply 29 Jul 2021, 00:18 Reply Quote 0
        • A
          arma473 @veteranashe
          last edited by 29 Jul 2021, 00:18

          @veteranashe It generates mass and energy for the owner only.

          There is an upper limit as to how much mass it can generate, it won't generate more than that. (So if you have enough engineers, you can actually mass stall while you have a paragon.) The amount of mass generated is also limited by the owner's need for mass. It won't generate extra mass to fill up your mass storage and overflow to teammates. So if you're not spending all of the potential mass, it is lost forever.

          Energy works the same way: There is an upper limit as to how much energy it can generate, it won't generate more than that. The amount of energy generated is also limited by the owner's need for energy. It won't generate energy to fill up the e bar or to overflow it to teammates. It only generates enough to cover what you're attempting to spend (up to the aforementioned upper limit).

          If we allowed paragons to always generate up to the limit regardless of whether the owner's mass bar was full/empty, the owner would almost always be overflowing lots of mass and energy to teammates which would give the teammates the chance to spend it.

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          • V
            veteranashe
            last edited by 29 Jul 2021, 02:43

            That's the impression I got that it gives you as much mass/e as you are spending

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            • H
              Hildegard
              last edited by Hildegard 8 Mar 2021, 09:51 3 Aug 2021, 09:50

              OP makes his point very clearly. What are you guys arguing about? Paragon description clearly states it generates "infinite resources". Both energy and mass production have their limits at 1 million and 10k respectively. It's very clearly not a "gameplay mechanic" for Paragon to not keep up with energy expenditure as long as the expenditure is within its production limits. What good is 1 million energy production for if your energy immediately spikes from a meager 50k expenditure to 0, flipping all your shields offline (perhaps even under mavor fire), because the production doesn't respond quickly enough? Energy storages alleviate the issue or very nearly eliminate it, but I've had experiences when paragon lets even a 350k storage deplete entirely before catching up. Game devs are notorious casuals when it comes to playtesting, and I believe its plausible to imagine they simply assumed it works fast enough as they clicked 100 engineers with their boomer fingers to build random buildings. It's a relatively minor issue but nonetheless an issue. It's not a "gameplay mechanic" for Paragon to require copious building space for rows of energy storages, especially in some rare 1v4 tower defense situations.

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
              • B
                biass
                last edited by 3 Aug 2021, 12:34

                I also don’t think pre-building energy storages to deal with an unworking game system is an intended game mechanic. I would support some extra storage to compensate.

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                • D
                  Dragun101
                  last edited by 3 Aug 2021, 16:22

                  As a reminder do rememeber as Paragon was initially envision engineers, factories and such gave innate energy storage. So Paragon having inbuilt storage was less needed

                  I’m a shitty 1k Global. Any balance or gameplay suggestions should be understood or taken as such.

                  Project Head and current Owner/Manager of SCTA Project

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                  • T
                    Tagada Balance Team
                    last edited by 9 Sept 2021, 13:39

                    Made a PR, will be considered for the next patch.
                    https://github.com/FAForever/fa/pull/3409

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 5
                    • C
                      CPTANT
                      last edited by 9 Sept 2021, 16:07

                      I don't get what's wrong with just building some more energy storages, you have infinite resources, what is stopping you?

                      F Z 2 Replies Last reply 9 Sept 2021, 16:14 Reply Quote 0
                      • F
                        FemtoZetta @CPTANT
                        last edited by 9 Sept 2021, 16:14

                        cptant said in Proposal: Paragon Innate Energy Storage:

                        I don't get what's wrong with just building some more energy storages, you have infinite resources, what is stopping you?

                        I don't get what's wrong with just adding storage to the Paragon, you have infinite resources, why should you have to build a separate building only because of the game engine's limitation?

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                        • Z
                          Zeldafanboy @CPTANT
                          last edited by 9 Sept 2021, 23:48

                          @cptant

                          I’d imagine engie pathing and build range would be an annoyance in a late game base capable of even attempting to construct a Paragon. This is purely a qol change.

                          put the xbox units in the game pls u_u

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                          • S
                            Skrat
                            last edited by 10 Sept 2021, 22:38

                            if you build a paragon you can find a mass for 20-30 energy storage

                            Sorry for my English. I use translator

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                            • A
                              Arran
                              last edited by 23 Sept 2021, 11:38

                              Alternative proposal. Have paragon permanently output its maximum generation. There will be no spike, teammates will benefit, the storage issue will be solved and everyone will be happy.

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                              • T
                                Tagada Balance Team
                                last edited by 23 Sept 2021, 12:56

                                That would be a huge buff to the Paragon, rejected.

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                • K
                                  KaletheQuick
                                  last edited by 23 Sept 2021, 13:26

                                  Nah. Aeon is kinda about that kind of planning, forethought, and single unit specialization.

                                  Not to mention the required volatile external storage is a weakness that can be attacked, making your turtling under a paragon alone far less useful.

                                  You must deceive the enemy, sometimes your allies, but you must always deceive yourself!

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