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    The current pre-release of the client ("pioneer" in the version) is only compatible to itself. So you can only play with other testers. Please be aware!

    Did you know?

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Discussion
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    • Chenbro101C Offline
      Chenbro101
      last edited by

      Wanted to start a thread about unexpected or little known interactions involving units in supcom faf.

      Did you know: Torp defence doesn't work against torp bombers?

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
      • FtXCommandoF Offline
        FtXCommando
        last edited by

        Torp bombers use depth charges not torpedoes.

        A 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • Chenbro101C Offline
          Chenbro101
          last edited by

          Minus points for not saying "Did you know?"

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
          • FtXCommandoF Offline
            FtXCommando
            last edited by

            Ah, I thought you were talking about why it happened.

            Well, I recently read about ZLO discovering that the last tick that a unit is building in a factory is actually free, so things like a fatboy with a lot of BP can build labs at a 15% discount from sticker price. Though it doesnt apply to assist afaik.

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            • Chenbro101C Offline
              Chenbro101
              last edited by

              Thats cool! I shall overlook the lack of "Did you know?" for that one.

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
              • A Offline
                Aulex @FtXCommando
                last edited by

                @ftxcommando Isn't this only for aeon torp bombers?
                The other ones use normal torps (unless this was changed since 2013)

                Somewhat related

                Did you know aeon destroyers and czar uses depth charges instead of torpedos, which for those that don't know cannot be blocked by anti torpedo defense.

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                • FtXCommandoF Offline
                  FtXCommando
                  last edited by

                  Looking at the db it seems you are right, though I thought all torp bombers did avoid torp defense.

                  A 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • A Offline
                    Aulex @FtXCommando
                    last edited by

                    @ftxcommando Well yes you're right, before the change to normalize torp bombers seraphim and I think uef torps got screwed by torp defense and aeon and cybran (uses current behavior) weren't effected by it. I may be mixing up the factions.

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                    • DeribusD Offline
                      Deribus Global Moderator
                      last edited by

                      Did you know?

                      Transports assisting a land factory will automatically carry units to the factory's rally point

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 8
                      • MazorNoobM Offline
                        MazorNoob
                        last edited by

                        DYK: An engineer with an attack move order will move to reclaim nearby enemy structures even if they were never scouted.

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                        • ZLOZ Offline
                          ZLO
                          last edited by ZLO

                          •When you build something, game remembers that and does not let you build in that place anymore.
                          (for example you could use cheats to teleport building away, but as long as building is not dead, game will not let you build in that place)
                          •When you upgraide any building, old building gets removed and replaced with new upgraided building. And while this happens, game forgets that that old 1rst building was build. New building that was spawned on top does not get the same treatment as newly build one and there is no extra mechanism to prevent building
                          •Usually players can't order to build buildings on existing buildings, but AIs can, sometimes they block their upgraided factories by placing stuff inside factories.eb840326-d21a-46c4-9013-eb32cb06fda7-image.png
                          Players can use "repair" hotkey on a building's wreck to give order, even if wreck is on top of other building. however it should not interfere with model of that building... not sure how that works, but you can't just build things inside other thing, but there is lots of empty space around factories where you can build
                          •you can do some cool weird stuff with that
                          IT WAS ALL DONE WITHOUT CHEATS, i didn't teleport things inside other things, i actually build it this way, and it can be reapeated with cheats off.
                          7d2f68b6-41cb-4045-a743-9cdcefadc0c1-image.png
                          3bbc2a06-8a20-4e7f-94a7-61729b25350e-image.png
                          bd3ab2c7-e7bc-4e88-9828-fc24b20bcb3b-image.png
                          •That is only the beginning tho!
                          I found out that it is often not consistent.
                          Sometimes i can fit storage in the corner of the factory, and sometimes i don't
                          386385f1-03a3-4ac8-bed5-46ad207f67cd-image.png
                          6709b5c9-d2d4-40ab-8f0c-807788d55af4-image.png
                          However if all factores are placed next to each other in a grid - then they all are acting similar, in a way that you can build storage in the same corner (i just didn't build all of them on this creenshot, but only 2 storages on the left are buildable for those factories)
                          b7252460-ecfc-405b-980e-f74f2545c541-image.png

                          •So i have been testing that for long time but im gonna skip all the failed test attempts... here is test that reavealed the mistery
                          •Making a big grid of dead t1 AAs
                          9c61c9f6-263a-4ead-aa76-2d0fedbb5ffb-image.png
                          •1rst test susbject coordinates 0x0 (mesured in pds with 0 at the top left pd xD), 2 layer of pds are buildable on the left, 1 layer at the bottom
                          d5f64ec9-9b78-4208-9121-a22d06a12b8c-image.png

                          •second subj, coords 0x1, 2 layers at the left, 1 layer at the bottom but only partually... weird actually
                          f67521bd-868b-45f9-b676-5b2652ded4a2-image.png

                          •3rd, 0x2, now it gets different, and i am able to build on top 75490332-b927-4850-8003-a377f241d625-image.png

                          •4th, 0x3. weird that those two pds were not buildable now 3bef4ca5-adf6-46b7-a25a-589646737d51-image.png

                          •5th. 1x0. so changin horisontal position changed my ability to rebuild PDs on factory sides nowa4ee36db-844b-40ec-82ce-d3fac976ad55-image.png

                          After that it was clear that factory's position on invisible grid affects your ability to rebuild things inside of it, witch was kinda werid...
                          also it repeats itself at least once in avery factory lenght i think... didn't check that for sure, and didn't check if it repeats itself more often... maybe like every 2 1 pgens or so maybe possible.

                          not many uses for that i guess, can probably try to fit storages and factories next to mexes, but need to know beforehand if you can do that with certain mexes or not. The fact that id depends on position kinda makes things simpler. also makes things insanely more fun for people that would try to recreate what you are doing but not placing things exactly in the same place LOL.

                          maybe you could fit more shields in the same area and fit tele-defence in the same area at the same time but it requires you to build things and then ctrl+k them and then build on top of them without reclaiming and then upgraide what you have build and then rebuild from wrecks.. not easy, and not cheap9b66a951-2fe1-45b3-9589-bea740f25939-image.png

                          Edit: Testing was hard not only for me https://youtu.be/NhIr38iKFac that poor SACU lost its mind

                          TA4Life: "At the very least we are not slaves to the UI" | http://www.youtube.com/user/dimatularus | http://www.twitch.tv/zlo_rd

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 13
                          • AurikoA Offline
                            Auriko
                            last edited by Auriko

                            ZLO, it's time your write a damn book about all the knowledge you have accumulated on this game 📚

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • ZLOZ Offline
                              ZLO
                              last edited by ZLO

                              If you assist unfinished building or unit of your opponent with a builder, builder will try to capture it. even if progress bar fills, capturing will not actually happen, and it will keep trying to capture it over and over again.

                              You can assist engineer with mantis or harbringer and they will assist in capturing if there is nothing to aggro against nearby

                              mantis / harb will not assist ally engineer capturing, but engineers can assists ally engineers capturing

                              If you and your opponent queue same building in the same place at the same time you can help to build enemy building.
                              it can often happen with engineers trying to build mass extractor at the same time... but surely happened once to two acus standing in the open place and randomly deciding that it is a good time to start a PD right in the same place and at the same time https://youtu.be/VsJ3Syb8wW4?t=134

                              TA4Life: "At the very least we are not slaves to the UI" | http://www.youtube.com/user/dimatularus | http://www.twitch.tv/zlo_rd

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                              • Chenbro101C Offline
                                Chenbro101
                                last edited by

                                Holy smokes that's a lot of cool weirdness right there! Do facs get the adjacency bonus from pgens built like this?

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                • K Offline
                                  keyser
                                  last edited by

                                  Dyk : aeon torpedo bomber depth charges gives water vision. You can use that to spot stealth ACU under water by groundfiring.

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 6
                                  • ZLOZ Offline
                                    ZLO
                                    last edited by ZLO

                                    Dyk: Capture speed is proportional to build time of a unit and it takes twice less time to capture unit, compared to building it.
                                    capturing will drain twice is much power per second compared to you building the thing that you capture.
                                    So overall it takes half the time and same amount of power to capture unit compared to building it.

                                    Reclaim speed of LIVING UNITS (not wrecks) is only proportional to power cost of a unit and nothing else.
                                    Just divide power cost by builder's build power and divide by 10 and you will get time that it takes to reclaim something.
                                    E.G. t1 engineer costs 260 power.
                                    if you want to reclaim it with other t1 engineer, it wil take 260 / (5*10) = 5,2 second.
                                    reclaiming t1 interceptor with t1 engineer will take 45 seconds.
                                    reclaiming t2 mex with t1 engineer will take 108 seconds
                                    and 13 minutes and 20 seconds to reclaim an ASF with t1 engineer

                                    it takes 3.2 sec to reclaim aeon lab
                                    2.8 for cybran
                                    2.4 for UEF
                                    1.6 for selen
                                    however 1rst 0.2 second engineer spends to unpack his "arm" and aim(tested on uef enginner)
                                    then after all HP has expired it actually needs extra 0.1 second to actually kill the unit. If that does not happen, unit will be alive with 0 HP

                                    one fullly upgraided t3 hive will deal 219 DPS to a GC by reclaiming it
                                    20 Fully upgraided hives can capture a monkeylord for about 9.2 seconds

                                    TA4Life: "At the very least we are not slaves to the UI" | http://www.youtube.com/user/dimatularus | http://www.twitch.tv/zlo_rd

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                                    • K Offline
                                      keyser
                                      last edited by

                                      Dyk : Groundfiring SR will kill and vet from inte swarm attacking it. On the countrary, If you give only move orders to the inte, they will win against the SR.

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                      • AurikoA Offline
                                        Auriko
                                        last edited by

                                        Did you know ?
                                        The fervor (Aeon T1 arty) is a reliable anti-air unit, and an underated counter to mercy. 😮
                                        mercy.png

                                        T 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                        • T Offline
                                          Tagada Balance Team @Auriko
                                          last edited by

                                          @auricocorico I knew I saw that correctly when I was casting that game!

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • epic-bennisE Offline
                                            epic-bennis Banned
                                            last edited by

                                            Did you know that you can get full t2 beach mex by min 7:10 and then need pricisely 31 T1 pgens to spend every single point of mass for t2 destroyer production.

                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
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