Chrono Dampener Rework
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In both my ladder and team games I've gotten the feeling that Chrono Dampener can be quite oppressive to play against, while also providing little feedback. I've written a mod (called "Chrono Expand" in the vault) to try to address these shortcomings.
Default Chrono Dampener:
There is a small effect around the ACU which causes units in a huge area to get immediately stunned for 2.5 seconds. The last titan is actually at the edge of the range, but there's no way to tell that.Chrono Expand:
The effect now covers the entire area in a wave which stuns units. All units lose the stun effect at the same time, which means that the closer the unit is to the ACU, the longer it gets stunned for. At present, units right next to the ACU get stunned for 3.5 seconds, while units at the edge get stunned for only 1 second.The values above aren't set in stone, and are actually mostly the result of my lackluster modding ability. I'd love to get a stun shorter than a second at the edge but for some reason that starts to shrink the radius of the effect instead.
What are your thoughts?
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This is a MUCH more visual application of the effect - very nice.
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This is really good, balance team please take notice.
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@Fremy_Speeddraw there is a matter which requires your attention.
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- The visual aspects make the ability more intuitive. The aspect where the stun times are shorter at the edge will mean higher tech units (with have longer range on average) become more effective against chrono, while low tech units will be completely shut down. Chrono mostly (in my experience) isn't gotten at T1, or T3 so I suspect this change will weaken chrono.
- Perhaps have stun time remain 2.5 seconds but only get's triggered "on contact" with the "chrono wave"?
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Fuckin solid work mate.
As an additional suggestion, I would experiment with adding a small wave effect to each unit as they get stunned, no bigger than the length of the personal shield range ring.
This helps to amplify the visual clarity for the "other player" - as the yellow lightning icon is small and hard to read en masse.
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biass it will probably be more obvious when units are stunned in a normal game as they would be moving, it's just a little more difficult to tell in this demonstration because the units are stationary.
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@Deribus Is there a way to also stop the units from reloading while they are stunned? That would make the percival more vulnerable to chrono.
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@arma473 said in Chrono Dampener Rework:
@Deribus Is there a way to also stop the units from reloading while they are stunned? That would make the percival more vulnerable to chrono.
Can't y charge reload time of the weapon 'on the fly' ? I think auto-overcharge works like this:
normal over-charge - 3sec cooldown, auto - 6 seconds.
It's 2 different weapons in blueprints though(Just disable old weapon and add new one with 'remaining cooldown + stun time' recharge time, which gets switched to old weapon once it fires at least once or fully recharged.
Also chrono from COM (maybe not new sacus) should work on experimentals, cybran's laser works, overcharge from rambo sera sacu - works. Billy from uef - works, only aoen's 'super weapon' is castrated vs experimentals.
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@Arran said in Chrono Dampener Rework:
- The visual aspects make the ability more intuitive. The aspect where the stun times are shorter at the edge will mean higher tech units (with have longer range on average) become more effective against chrono, while low tech units will be completely shut down. Chrono mostly (in my experience) isn't gotten at T1, or T3 so I suspect this change will weaken chrono.
- Perhaps have stun time remain 2.5 seconds but only get's triggered "on contact" with the "chrono wave"?
Half the reason he made it was to nerf chrono, he literally called it oppressive in the OP.
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My impression as Aeon 1v1 ladder player. I cannot speak for lower ratings and for TMM.
The situation it fixes :
If the duration of the stun is tuned appropriatly, it would end two frustrating situations :- Your units just can't chase a retreating chrono ACU, cause they get stunned out of their gun range, and can't progress past chrono range (i think percy is the only non sniper unit which can chase and shoot at a chrono acu ?)
- Once caught in the chrono field and if the ACU marches forward, your units have very little room to escape, if none, which often leads to the death of all units caught.
I'm fine with those situations being less oppressive : the DPS and movements of units should be impaired, but not cancelled completly.
But :
If you nerf the range / duration too much, you might end up with some t2 units being barely affected (think of the hoplite or the mangoose for example). I think chrono should give you a decent edge against those units and not only vs low range tank (pillars/ obsidians / rhino / t1 tanks ...), because it's an upgrade that comes late due to its price (usually you need 2 t2 pgen to afford it with decent assistance).Last observation about the relevancy of chrono:
The fact that chrono has a low window of opportunity already prevents it to be seen and abused in 95% of the games. Think of it, chrono ACU becomes obsolete once one of those unit comes into play : snipers, percies, few t2 pd, and of course the threat of t2/t3 air snipe. Only cybran have limited options to counter it.I play 100% aeon, and I can barely find you replays of me winning just because of chrono, because
1°) it's hard to find the right opportunity to use it, and it's often very dangerous
2°) once the opponent knows you have it, he can retreat, make pds, avoid your acu, or make t3 counters ... Basically it only kinda works when rushed on maps like twin rivers, open palms, badlands ... and if the opponent is surprised by it.So please don't make it completly useless
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Oh i forgot : the visual aspect of your mod is top tier, it should have always been like that. It also makes sense that the wave stuns as it progresses. That should be implemented regardless of balance issues.
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A chrono ACU at current balance is able to defend against a t2 army of any size, if you have some room to retreat. I usually do it when I go max greed on a map where it is easy to defend. I don't know why it is still underused.
@Auricocorico Hoplites and Mogooses are already hardcountered by the aeon double gun, so they won't be efficient to fight a chrono com with.
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Looks very solid, I will forward it to the balance team.
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The reason chrono was reduced to only a 2.5s stun was to prevent units from losing orders when they are stunned for a longer duration. Durations longer than that should probably still be avoided for this reason.
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@Sinforosa yeah, that is one of the issues. The others I'm aware of are that I can't make a stun less than a second and that the visual effect will get hidden by elevated terrain.
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Chrono is half the e cost of UEF personal shield and 550 mass cheaper yet it hard counters pretty much all land units barring 1k mass t3 direct fire units like siege bots and snipers.
Even percivals aren’t really immune to it, it has a 1 range advantage against Aeon gun. Percy v Chrono mostly comes down to who is carrying around more mobile shields.
Don’t see why you would need to wait until almost-t3 stage for chrono when you can get it on like 1 or 2 less t2 pgens than something like uef shield which is a late t2/early t3 upgrade.
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@FtXCommando said in Chrono Dampener Rework:
Don’t see why you would need to wait until almost-t3 stage for chrono when you can get it on like 1 or 2 less t2 pgens than something like uef shield which is a late t2/early t3 upgrade.
Well maybe you need to try it out in the context of the game and send us a replay
I'm just stating my experience : you have factories to feed in your game and not only your ACU, unless you play wonder 8v8 .. So you can't just rush 2 t2 pgens straight when you get t2 , you need mexes, support factories .. etc. If you gamble that your chrono will be enough to control the entire ennemy army, you can pause your production and your eco scaling to get it quicker, but it's such a danger.If the opponent has a mirror eco (2 t2 pgens and some t2 mexes), well he's theorically in good shape to click the t3 upgrade while you're busy upgrading chrono. I would agree that the meta is to add more t2 support factories and not rush t3, so in a sense chrono counters the meta, but it's up to the players to changes their playstyle if it's hard countered every game (which doesn't happen, cause aoen is so rare ...).
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gorgeous work,it looks decent and logical.
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@Auricocorico said in Chrono Dampener Rework:
@FtXCommando said in Chrono Dampener Rework:
Don’t see why you would need to wait until almost-t3 stage for chrono when you can get it on like 1 or 2 less t2 pgens than something like uef shield which is a late t2/early t3 upgrade.
Well maybe you need to try it out in the context of the game and send us a replay
I'm just stating my experience : you have factories to feed in your game and not only your ACU, unless you play wonder 8v8 .. So you can't just rush 2 t2 pgens straight when you get t2 , you need mexes, support factories .. etc. If you gamble that your chrono will be enough to control the entire ennemy army, you can pause your production and your eco scaling to get it quicker, but it's such a danger.If the opponent has a mirror eco (2 t2 pgens and some t2 mexes), well he's theorically in good shape to click the t3 upgrade while you're busy upgrading chrono. I would agree that the meta is to add more t2 support factories and not rush t3, so in a sense chrono counters the meta, but it's up to the players to changes their playstyle if it's hard countered every game (which doesn't happen, cause aoen is so rare ...).
Yeah no. You need 1 t2 pgen to make chrono at a decent timing.
Do you consider sera nano + gun some late game ACU? No, it’s a pretty typical early-mid t2 stage setup for a frontline sera ACU.
And funny enough, Aeon chrono + range is cheaper than that setup.
Chrono competes with upgrades 2-3x as expensive as it and is indisputably a tier above comparable upgrades.
Aeon’s version of late t2/early t3 upgrade is their double shield which DOES compare to UEF personal shield, not chrono. And that heavy shield upgrade competes with chrono for an upgrade slot, yet I see chrono way more often than that “superior upgrade” gee I wonder why.
