FAFLive - Personal Trainer Training Nights
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Thank you for posting this. Hope to hear from this thread.
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I feel like we could use a different twitch channel for this, as I can imagine there are plenty of players who follow faflive just to watch tournaments and not to get training.
Building up a following on that new channel would be difficult though so maybe it is just better to use faflive to propel the viewership to this new category of streaming
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@waffelzNoob I completely agree, on the fact that some people have gotten used to the fact the channel serves as purpose to broadcast tournaments 99% of the time.
I also agree on the fact, that you mentioned "it would be difficult to get a new following on the new channel." We aren't too big of a community.
Perhaps if we are wanting variety instead of boring training, we can probably add like pro and newbie 1v1 ladder training, mapgen, setons etc, something in the competitive scene.
The gain from here is people potentially wanting to play in one of those competitive scenes and allowing more players joining the queue/lobby.
Just an idea from my POV. Let me know what you think
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How about we make a new channel but before Tournament-Coverages on FAFLive we also Broadcast the Tourney Prep with some highrated player. This could function as an advertisment tool. Also we could reach out to content creator to maybe show it on streams/videos/have it in their video description. The News Tab might be an idea too. so weve got quite some ways to promote
the new channel -
I would be amendable to a FAF Personal Trainer Youtube account, if people think this is a good idea?
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This is more suited for YT content, rather than Twitch.
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Unrelated but related: @Strydxr I encourage you to use the association section of the forums for these type of discussions. These type of decisions involve long term consequences. It's good to ask the community. But it is the association that is responsible.
I'm against the idea of multiple, separate channels. It just makes it more difficult for the end user to find content that is about FAForever. It makes it more difficult to maintain for contributors. It introduces vague criteria when content should be on channel A or channel B. The majority of things it introduces in my point of view are problems.
In my humble opinion: just because FAF Live turned out to be only used for tournaments doesn't imply that it should only be used for tournaments. In my opinion it should be used for content for members of the community, by members of the community. It's our official channel on Twitch. The same applies to the official YouTube channel. There have been multiple ideas to re-purpose FAF Live these past years. There were little to no objections back then. Just lack of contributors to take the initiative. Now we have those contributors. Let's breath life into FAF Live!
I understand that there's an audience now that expects tournaments. But we're talking about maybe 50-100 concurrent viewers. I don't think preserving that expectation outweighs the creation of another channel and fracturing the information space of where FAForever is. I think having an official place where people can talk, play, train, reason, build or maybe even develop on or for FAForever is valuable.
There is definitely interest in this type of content. Don't take my word for it. Take the example of this initiative: introducing content where people can learn about the game. Compare the number of views of the average tournament playlist:
To the views of the channel of the @TheGreenSquier that provides exactly that type of content:
These videos have on average way more views. Like a ten fold more views. Those viewers are interested in FAForever. They are interested in learning about the game. They just need a place to ground themselves in this community. TheGreenSquier helps them with this. Similarly, so can FAF Live help them with this through initiatives like streaming these training nights. It's great content to gain more insight as a player. Great content for players to be more comfortable around people. Great content to (eventually) have more people to find the courage to participate in tournaments.
What perhaps feels unrelated now, but the original mission statement (statutes) of the FAF Live team also does not mention the word 'tournament' or 'competitive'. It mentions the word 'event'. See also:
For history purposes, see the version from January 2023:
I have no idea who wrote these though. The history doesn't go back far enough for that. But this is as good an event as any other. So are for example community game nights (CGNs).
To end with a positive note: what is great about streaming (on both Twitch and YouTube) is that the audience can interact with the content. For tournaments this is usually discouraged by the anti stream snipe measurements. For training content this doesn't need to exist. People can reason along side the trainers about what they're observing. They can ask questions. It can be really meaningful. I think it's a great idea to start streaming these training nights. I may even watch them myself, as I recently started playing 1v1 ladder.
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@Jip said in FAFLive - Personal Trainer Training Nights:
Unrelated but related: @Strydxr I encourage you to use the association section of the forums for these type of discussions. These type of decisions involve long term consequences. It's good to ask the community. But it is the association that is responsible.
I think i understand why, but this conversation is simply to gather input, as I believe all members of the community should have the right to speak on possible innovations , especially ones on intercommunity interactions by teams like the Personal Trainer team. Although I will note this for the future, thank you friend!
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I'm against the idea of multiple, separate channels. It just makes it more difficult for the end user to find content that is about FAForever. It makes it more difficult to maintain for contributors. It introduces vague criteria when content should be on channel A or channel B. The majority of things it introduces in my point of view are problems.
I also agree, i do think centralisation is also very important when it comes to resources being available, as it allows the community to be decentralised and access the information with efficiency. This is why I proposed utilising FAFLive in the first place, for CGN, and for Personal Trainer 'events', and perhaps extending the spotlight to other teams and concepts in the future
In my humble opinion: just because FAF Live turned out to be only used for tournaments doesn't imply that it should only be used for tournaments. In my opinion it should be used for content for members of the community, by members of the community. It's our official channel on Twitch. The same applies to the official YouTube channel. There have been multiple ideas to re-purpose FAF Live these past years. There were little to no objections back then. Just lack of contributors to take the initiative. Now we have those contributors. Let's breath life into FAF Live!
I understand that there's an audience now that expects tournaments. But we're talking about maybe 50-100 concurrent viewers. I don't think preserving that expectation outweighs the creation of another channel and fracturing the information space of where FAForever is. I think having an official place where people can talk, play, train, reason, build or maybe even develop on or for FAForever is valuable.There is definitely interest in this type of content. Don't take my word for it. Take the example of this initiative: introducing content where people can learn about the game. Compare the number of views of the average tournament playlist:
To the views of the channel of the @TheGreenSquier that provides exactly that type of content:
These videos have on average way more views. Like a ten fold more views. Those viewers are interested in FAForever. They are interested in learning about the game. They just need a place to ground themselves in this community. TheGreenSquier helps them with this. Similarly, so can FAF Live help them with this through initiatives like streaming these training nights. It's great content to gain more insight as a player. Great content for players to be more comfortable around people. Great content to (eventually) have more people to find the courage to participate in tournaments.
I don't see why tournaments being the MAIN aspect of FAFLive prevents other concepts from being tried out at all, especially with Syndicus (@ToSViolation) now being the Team Lead. I would like to help contribute to this, even if it's Balance Team PR, Personal Trainer events, or helping in the background with Promotional Team efforts
I don't see why we would want to take views as a primary motivator for 'success', when things in FAF typically take a long while to really become fruition. Let's take Community Game Night for example, it wasn't too popular when @Deribus first tried it many years ago, resulting in it being scrapped, and when it returned years later, it slowly got popular through it becoming consistent. I believe in building something sustainable, something that would even outlast my contribution to FAForever, so whilst views being scaled as "interest" is entirely valid and a nice dopamine boost, I like practicality and community feedback much more, and i think most would potentially agree with that point, no?What perhaps feels unrelated now, but the original mission statement (statutes) of the FAF Live team also does not mention the word 'tournament' or 'competitive'. It mentions the word 'event'. See also:
For history purposes, see the version from January 2023:
I have no idea who wrote these though. The history doesn't go back far enough for that. But this is as good an event as any other. So are for example community game nights (CGNs).
This is a very good point, thank you for the reminder in regards to what FAFLive is originally supposed to be designed around, I'll keep this in mind when I look over possible changes I'd like to see implemented across FAFLive when I help Syndicus get off his feet.
To end with a positive note: what is great about streaming (on both Twitch and YouTube) is that the audience can interact with the content. For tournaments this is usually discouraged by the anti stream snipe measurements. For training content this doesn't need to exist. People can reason along side the trainers about what they're observing. They can ask questions. It can be really meaningful. I think it's a great idea to start streaming these training nights. I may even watch them myself, as I recently started playing 1v1 ladder.
I would like to see a bunch of interaction as I believe interaction is how people learn best, and that even those who don't directly learn would interact and allow the new concept to adapt quicker and become more streamlined
Very happy that you took the time to give us insights Mr Jip! I would also be happy to sit down in Voice between You, @hybrid_, @Fichom, @ToSViolation and I at some point to brainstorm possible innovations after this post has been up for a while, because if we're going to do something new and innovative, it should be done correctly with FAForever's best efforts behind it, right?
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