ACU TML too strong for short-range combat

Sainse

@zwierzak said in ACU TML too strong for short-range combat:

ACU TML now has a shallow flight profile for short distances

What do you mean by now? Isn't it how it always has been? As far as I'm aware it's been about this way for years. If it's been significantly different in the past it will be interesting to compare

ZLO

afaik it used to be worse, and it was nerfed at least once very long time ago, and afaik it was not changed after that
still gonna post this tho https://youtu.be/FU4MRPYDXNc?si=_PL-4dLZt-UqO8ZM&t=1340

Before it was nerfed i remember some historical moment when two ACUs were hugging each ofther in shallow water on Regor VI
(they were hugging because one of them had ACU TML and could kill other one if it moved futher away)

Sainse

@ZLO Arch didn't even need to run away, he could walk in and Blin wouldn't have enough dps to kill him. Not much time to take the best decision though

Vindex

@ZLO same thing actually happened in the last lots qualifier in Blin vs Grimplex match - #23732820

Kilatamoro

Don't forget that Sera tacticals got double speed somewhat recently. Haven't tested, but it feels like the Sera version could be devastating against experimentals in close range.

maudlin27

Unless the enemy ACU is stationary there's no guarantee you'll hit - it's challenging to time it right for a moving target that's moving predictably, let alone unpredictably, especially if the ACU is operating close to gun range (as opposed to much closer than that). By going TML you'll be forgoing defensive upgrades that make the ACU much stronger in combat. A mobile shield can also potentially block the TML missile (unless the ACU is operating close to the edge of the shield bubble). It also will only snipe them if they're sub-6k health limiting its use to either firing when it wont snipe them to try and put some damage on the ACU and force it to retreat, or waiting until they're low enough that they either die or are so low your ACU/units can kill them before they retreat. Finally, the enemy should already have a good idea you have a TML ACU since chances are you'll have used it to attack mexes (in part as it's not good enough given the above limitations that you'd get TML over shield/nano to just use in combat); so they should know to be careful getting too close to you, and to not keep their ACU stationery if 6k unexpected damage on it would lose them the game.

I'd hate to see this eliminated, since it's great to see when it's attempted (whether it's a success or not) in casts, and for the ACU TML user provides an interesting risk-reward option - the closer you get to them the greater your chance of hitting, but the greater the risk you die if you miss, while to a lesser extent the person considering attacking the ACU also has to weigh up the risks of say getting closer to their ACU when they think they can get a kill (to make it harder for them to retreat/get out of range) vs the increased risk of a TML hitting.

That said, I'm not saying the TML upgrade as a whole isn't powerful, just that this particular potential usage of it IMO makes the gameplay more varied and interesting (so if TML upgrade was considered too powerful as a whole taking the more niche ACU snipe potential into account, I'd rather the upgrade was made a bit weaker more generally by say increasing the cost; also because the proposed changes like speed and damage would make it inconsistent with a normal TML which wouldn't be intuitive)

Sainse

@Kilatamoro said in ACU TML too strong for short-range combat:

Don't forget that Sera tacticals got double speed somewhat recently. Haven't tested, but it feels like the Sera version could be devastating against experimentals in close range.

As someone who tried I can say it’s almost useless. You can hit once or twice, but that’s not enough, it’s even less than one full overcharge. Very little dps, low chance to hit cause exps are pretty fast. Moreover was exps keeping distance is crucial, tml acu is paper. Imo it’s not really worth it even if you make statical tml, and with com it’s way too risky.

The only use case for TMLs vs exps is the battery of 6-7 tmls vs fatty, but that has nothing to do with TML ACU

waffelzNoob

@maudlin27 it's challenging, but low risk and very high reward.
Acu tml in general is a bit overpowered so nerfing it would lightly address the problem in this thread aswell

Caliber

people abusing the new fast sera tml com to one shot coms is brutal

phong

I'd like to suggest increasing ACU TML minimum range to 130% gun range or something thereabouts, enough to ensure that if an opponent is hit by a missile as they're approaching, they have just enough time to turn around before they are finished off by the gun. Moreover, the TML com would no longer have such an easy time retreating from a fight by forcing their opponent to dodge, and it would solve the problem that at very close range, dodging requires luck.

On a related note, I'd like to also make a suggestion for fixing one of the UI's glaring flaws: add secondary icons to ACUs to represent their upgrades. Broadly speaking, it's our job to make and send scouts and it's the game's job to label and present the information they gather in a consistent manner - icons. We shouldn't have to zoom in and squint at a unit's 3d model or peculiar glow (while upgrading), and this information should persist for players to take note of even after vision is lost, provided there is radar coverage. I vaguely remember @Jip saying that changing the ACU icon is not possible, but maybe an otherwise invisible, unselectable unit can be made to accompany it and show the upgrades as icons right below it.

@maudlin27 currently, the TML com is very strongly incentivized to time their first missile to hit just as they enter gun range - a high probability hit since very few players zoom in and take note of the backpack. After that, the TML ACU can pursue while both shooting and lobbing missiles that are at their absolute hardest to dodge so close in, even experienced players need to get lucky to avoid taking hits. If their victim wants to disengage, they have to zig-zag as they go, making them effectively ~10% slower.

I like attacking coms with TML but I don't want a single well timed surprise hit just before an engagement to mean inescapable death for them.

ZLO

@Caliber said in ACU TML too strong for short-range combat:

people abusing the new fast sera tml com to one shot coms is brutal

Afaik this is unintended and should be fixed

rampeer

Hello, @phong (I mean gourand).

I totally agree with you: being able to see com upgrades are beneficial, escpecially for new players.