Matchmaker Pool Feedback Thread

[Sainse]

@theweakienoob said in Matchmaker Pool Feedback Thread:

No, there are not enough good 3v3 maps. Twin River for sure is not a good one because you literally have two separate 1v1s and an airplayer which is 0% interesting gameplay, also since it's basically just t1 spam and gun.

There are plenty of maps that can be adapted for 3v3. Paludarium was in 4v4 pool for some reason. It can be played 3v3 with disabled air slot easily. Same goes for Tourmaline, Miracle, Nomadiah, The Pyramid V2, salembay. They all are fine for 3v3 with disabled air slot. And that's considering only those map that were in map pool already, just not 3v3 pool.

Selkie Isle, wonder open 6v6 v2, monument valley, Miracle, Sands of Ablicka (slots 1,3,9) are all well-suited for 3v3 games.

[Sladow-Noob]

@sainserow MatchMaker always only uses the first spawns and not specific ones. Adaptive maps won't spawn additional mexes.

[Sainse]

@theweakienoob Ok, I didn't know that. But:

1. that's not a technical limitation and can be fixed
2. that's not an issue for a lot of mentioned maps at all or for the most part.

For example, Tourmaline has the air slot as the last one. So it will be fine at 3v3 map pool with no changes required. Same goes for Nomadiah and The Pyramid V2.

Adaptive Palundarium also has 4th air slot. Adaptive won't spawn air mexes? Ok, so'll be it. It won't make gameplay worse.

Now about spawns. Swapping them isn't a technical limitation or a big problem. It can be done under 15 minutes by any experienced map maker. It took be a bit more time. Here is example for Ablicka fix. First 6 spawns now.

Seems to work, I've started without crash. Similar thing could be done with any other map, if required.

[FtXCommando]

Miracle and salembay and sands of albicka are definitely not good 3v3 maps, these are all make gun and walk into enemy base maps while one player goes t2 air.

If anything alicka is better as a 3v3 map with the 1-6 slot distribution now (I think top right vs bottom left?) than that distribution. The setup you posted could be fine for lower rated players, but that’s just horrible for high rated gameplay because the gameplay is insanely reductive.

[Sainse]

@ftxcommando I'm not proposing them as 1500+ maps, we don't have any common maps in 3v3, even for <500 & 500-1000 bracket. Top vs bottom for Abliska is a good proposition and can be implemented by swapping spawns just as well. By default would leave all bottom 4 bases (2 on each side of the river) empty, which won't be good.

[FtXCommando]

The one you posted is fine for 500-1000 since that bracket tends to dislike asymmetrical spawns

[Sladow-Noob]

@sainserow
I do not have the knowledge if you can just re-create maps with spawns or if there are problems with the permissions to do that;

Overall usually the technical things are not the limit, the manpower is.
If you have any map suggestions, you can always reach out to me via Discord (Or another Matchmaker Team member), I'll take a look and if something seems good, I'll post it in the MM team channel. Applying is also always an option.
I'll stop posting here for now as I want to wait until someone with more knowledge than I do responds, just FYI so it doesn't seem like I'd just ignore you.

[StormLantern]

@Jip or @MadMax would know the rules

[Jip]

If the map has a license that allows you to do it then that's fine. All the maps of @IndexLibrorum , @CaptainKlutz and I think @MadMax and my own maps have such a license.

Otherwise you need permission of the author.

[IndexLibrorum]

And in case of my maps, just send me a PM and I'll fix issues

[maudlin27]

@stormlantern Re changing the uneven mex distribution frequency, how much less often are we talking? I enjoyed the variety that the asymmetry provides and it encourages teams to work together more, so will be a shame to see it feature much less; I’m at around 1.3-1.4k. Appreciate you can’t please everyone so I was inputting just to avoid the risk of the impression that everyone at <1.5k dislikes the mapgen asymmetry.

Depending on the rating of those disliking the asymmetry could a scaled system be done instead (eg <750 average - very unlikely; 750-1500 slightly less likely; 1.5k+ as it currently is)?

[StormLantern]

@maudlin27

We'll be changing the two encircled maps to having 6 slots. So for your bracket that only means a somewhat added chance for getting a more balanced distribution of mexes. For the lower brackets the chance becomes almost 100%.

[maudlin27]

FYI based on discord there's a bug with coastal bridge spawns in 1v1: https://discord.com/channels/197033481883222026/408556023180296193/1268746892708282368

[StormLantern]

@maudlin27

Thanks for reporting it. Ill replace the map.

[IndexLibrorum]

I'd like to request that 'The Cold Place' is never again put in the 1v1 pool. The center reclaim makes it super volatile, the start is just very unpleasant, the map is really boring, it is very poorly designed and has no aesthetic value whatsoever, and god forbid you play as cybran/uef against an Aeon or seraphim.

[waffelzNoob]

I think it's a pretty creative map. Boring is subjective and I don't get what you mean with "poorly designed". Its visuals are simple but not ugly
Playing versus aeon on it definitely sets you back though because of the early aurora in mid but there are ways to go around it. Think ghetto gunship, jester, rushing a naval fac, walking acu over to reclaim enemy naval fac, or playing very aggressively on land while your opponent spent time controlling the middle and building pgens trying to accommodate all that mass. There's plenty reclaim on land to fuel these strategies early on

It's not easy but there are things you can try doing to win over your aeon opponent. Things other than simple t1 spam that most other maps encourage

[JaggedAppliance]

Some feedback on the high rated pool:

Tumulus - Haven't played it
Amoor - decent map no issue
Open palms - classic
Valenvaryon - decent map no issue
Vya -3 - classic macro 10x
Asteria - ok as a one off in the pool, not a normal 1v1 map at all, bo heavy macro map, 1v1 against the map
Bluelands - not good, very bo heavy, high mass navy map, one dimensional
moonshine - haven't played it in probably 8 years, don't remember it being good
cadmium green - decent map
eye of the storm - classic
Map gen 13x - who knows, probably not good though
adaptive sin - bad, completely non interactive map for a long time, macro map, nothing to do but play against the map not your opponent
crossfire canal - classic but in a pool with lots of other macro maps
gateway and rose - haven't played recently, another bo and macro heavy map

The pool is really unbalanced towards large maps where it barely matters what your opponent is doing. Just macro better or have a better bo, boring.

If you have more 20x maps they also take longer to play so they will probably take up even more of the pool in terms of time played, something to consider.

[JaggedAppliance]

Just to be clear I think Asteria is a lot better than sin or bluelands.

[Paradox_of_War]

I made the pool this month. I can honestly see your point that the pool is too macro heavy. I would try to replace one large macro map with an additional 10x10 moderate scaling map in future.

[JaggedAppliance]

In future meaning when?