I don't get your expense argument - a T2 shield costs 500-700 mass; you could build 10 of them and it's still a fraction of the novax cost.

It's not just an expense argument. As the Novax moves, if means you need to move around engineers to counter it. Engineers are slower. Note more importantly to your point; a single Novax will ;

• over power and kill a Cybran T2-d1 in 1 shot, (4) Shots if Sera T2 - unassisted
• over power and kill a Cybran T3 in (4) shots, or (6) if Sera T3 - unassisted
• most mex's get surrounded by fabs, so it doesnt need to kill the mex, the fabs do that FOR the SAT
• Novax's do extra damage to shields, so as soon as the shield drops- ITS DEAD

So if you succeeded in shielding your base for 1 sat, you have to get more shields / engineer assist even after shielding. And so you make strongholds where shielding is better. But that only works up to (3) sats. At (4+) sats (around 1000 dps), you're fucked.

In the meantime, you basically get ripped apart on the edges. SATs are practically like the stereotypical American-Sitcom In-Laws. There's no defense, no escape, and they chip, and chip and chirp away at you unstoppably....

Which underlines the point of this thread- balance aside- its a very un-fun unit in its current state.

But, for instance if Sat players had to micro them around SMDs; that would be an elegant counter; already in game.

The SAT layer is a nice idea from futurist stand point (what kind of future wouldn't have intel Sats) but an ammunition based orbital thing- kinda would ruin some of the sense of 'realism' for me. But that's just me.

@Jip said in Another Novax conversation:

Allow SMDs to intercept satellites (manually)

This idea is not new. It's used in LOUD. I like it thematically. It provides the player with an option to immediately counter a satellite if the player thinks it's necessary. For example, countering the laser-based satellite would be a no brainer if you are also being shelled by artillery.

Looking forward to things if this goes up for testing... fingers crossed

@snoog You hit on something I forgot. With (1) sat, an entire team, needs to shield up their base, near, and far mexs to 'counter'.

A typical t3 shield is around 3000 mass and a typical 8 person map has 4-6 close mexes, 1-2 expos, and then whatever far mexes exist. By the time a Novax shows up, there's also probably a main t3 power grid; so conservatively a player has 3-4 places to shield.

That means the first Sat, can require an investment of 12-15k mass, and power drain of 1200-1600 per second; per player.

By the numbers then, to 'counter':

• a Setons team- if they're each only getting (4) more t3 shields, 48-60k mass.,

• a Dual Gap team - assuming there's some over lap, across 7 players, getting (2) that's 42k mass,

• a Random Map team - assuming 5 players getting (3) each, that's 45k mass

ofc, that's plus power drain, cost of engineers going around, and mass to build power. And, that's with NO DAMAGE DONE, and only assuming 2-3 shields a player. So just by existing, a SAT almost immediately pays for itself.

Artillery is slow firing and inaccurate. Bombers can get shot down. Sats cost nothing once built and scale as a flock better than anything else.

@Nomander said in Another Novax conversation:

Satellite isn't unbalanced, it's just annoying to play against.

This.

But serious question- how much do I need to donate to patron to get something done about this fun killing unit?

Just leaving it as it is, means there's more than a 25% chance, every game of an unblock-able, perfectly accurate, no power costing, invincible*, fast moving, weak-but scalable 'artillery' unit.

@dorset said in Setons Opti Ballancing:

Wouldn't it be better for the lowest rank players to battle it out on air and have a slower building air game while the higher ranked players held the front line arc created by the other three positions?

It seems like that, but in actual fact- recovering a broken front is MUCH easier than a broken air.

Thanks for the replies guys! Perhaps I was wrong..

Maybe the ones that are the most memorable are those with bad air... gg

Suggestion- after winning team beats others they fight each other. Can only be 1 King.

I've noted in the last while (mb last year) that opti-mirror balance is consistently putting low rated players on the air slot when populating the positions. It seems intentional - given how frequently the lowest gets put on air.

Can this bias be shifted to front or beach?

Am I wrong? Just seems to common for it to be blind luck.
Will this change if I select "Odd vs Even" or "Top vs Bottom" etc?

Sat scaling is the main thing that really makes them hard to manage.

What if they had a power drain as a limiting factor-? This isn't a major change, just a response to scaling.

Won't break the unit, won't make it unviable, just respond to scaling issue.

@liam_ how would that be OP?

I like the idea. Feels symmetrical abit since UEF and Cybran have sort of a rivalry and Sparkies would be very useful.

But they already do Jamming so maybe too much so?

Thanks Sheikah!

Thank you @Katharsas @Uveso and @Jip so far I've not had any crashes provided I have nothing else open. This probably confirms what Katharsas was saying in that maybe my computer can't handle FAF + x.

It's probably time for a new computer just holding on to the nostalgia tower abit longer.

Got it, here it is.

https://filebin.net/vng7a1dkc9xyhk3n

@Jip Thank you. Do you want all log folder data or just the file (game_17825107.txt)?

On the old forums with Downlords' Client, there were (3) things they asked for and I used to be able to upload right onto the forum. (eg https://forums.faforever.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18934 )

Would you prefer an online hosting service(like FileBin) with me posting a link here? Or is there button I don't yet have access to allowing upload on this forum?

I'm sorry to ask all these noob questions- but when I was looking for a Sticky Thread with instructions, I didnt see one.

@Jip Crashed again. What files and how do I upload them to you/this post?

Thank you kind sir. I've enabled it and went next crash occurs, will be back to this thread with logs.

Much appreciated!

Where do should I start troubleshooting complete game + computer crashes. Entire computer freezes up, does the low pitched buzz sound, and power cycle reset is needed to fix. No blue screen, just stops.

Three times so far...

• on a Right click
• while rapidly clicking,
• regardless of what time in game and it's even happened in campaign.

Using:

• ACu highlight
  -Advanced Target Priorities 1.1
• Advanced Reclaim Info
• Common Mod Tools
• Eco Manager
• Idle Engineers 2
• Philip Crofts Soundtrack
• NoShake
• Random UI improvements
• Supreme Scoreboard 2.3
• TA Music
• UI Party

@Printer Had the same thing occur recently. Got notification NVIDA control wasn't installed independently of FAF so-

game_13570399.log

ice-adapter.log

client.log

I'll try the UI mod, and reinstalling NVIDA.

Was in the middle of a match and entire screen froze. Seemed to lock-up entire computer so had to restart.

Went to FAF folder, copied: iceAdapterLogs folder (not attached, do you need?), client.txt, client.log.2020-12-27.0.gz, and game_(the one it happened in) and have attached here.

It happened a day ago but I figured it was because I'd reinstalled but to a SSD, and so I moved the game files to slower drive. So now that it's happened again- any advice how to fix this?

client.log

game_13491348.log

DxDiag.txt

What about the suggestion about incorporating diminishing returns? Did I miss a response to that suggestion?

Seems like that would be easy to tune by the balance team and keeping RAS SCUs useful.