Aeon Gun ACU

[TheWeakie]

Trash t1 lol

[phong]

Colossus lol

[waffelzNoob]

Instead of moving range gun to cybran, we should just delete it from the game, thanks

[ComradeStryker]

I believe someone else mentioned it already, but, why not reduce the range upgrade's... well... range?
Then make a separate upgrade that continues off that branch to grab the extra range.

Yes, that would mean the Speed and current Range upgrades would have to be adjusted
to accommodate a 3rd upgrade, but, that seems like the best option recommended, so far.

If I may, here are my thoughts on how it could work best.

Speed Upgrade:
Mass: 500 -> 450

Range Upgrade:
Range: 35 -> 30
Mass: 500 -> 450

Extended Range Upgrade (new):
Range: 30 -> 35
Mass: 300

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This means the total mass required for all upgrades increases from 1,000 to 1,200.
Only 200 extra mass is required.
Not to mention the extra build time, and energy required to gather an extra upgrade.

I see this as the best answer to both worlds as it reduces the effectiveness of the range
without needing to remove or alter it drastically.
And it's still cheap enough to obtain without a massive drawback.

To make it more even, all three upgrades could be set to 400 mass,
this way it still comes out to 1,200 mass total.

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These are just my two cents on this.
Granted, these values should be adjusted - as what works on paper, doesn't necessarily work in-game.

That being said, there are more ways to keep something working without having to rework it
completely or drastically change as others may have mentioned.

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~ Stryker

[TheVVheelboy]

The problem is that the advantage of this range upgrade is way bigger than just poultry 200 mass, even 400 mass is still dirt cheap cheap considering your acu now outranges basically anything that can threaten it. Even in early t3 stage.

[FtXCommando]

Why do people propose making a third gun upgrade before actually giving a reason for Aeon to have a 35 gun in the first place

[Blodir]

Aeon double gun is brutally broken in a lot of situations. The problem is that any unit that has high range should be slower than units with low range, such that there's a range/speed tradeoff. Now acus have the same speed and one just has more range than the other so there's practically no counterplay.

Also gun acu is just broken to begin with, imo increasing OC energy cost (and buffing e storage capacity) is the first step.

[veteranashe]

Oc should cost 450 e

[Azraaa]

just remove the range upgrade for aeon or just making it cost a lot lot lot more in terms of mass and e

[waffelzNoob]

that'll cause commotion amongst the noobs "wow this is such a small range increase why did i pay 3000 mass and 100000 energy for this???" followed by eternal complaining to the balance team

just delete it from the game gg ez solution

[Freedom_]

we should make the UEF ACU gun upgrade the same as the rest of them while we are at it, then it's fair

[Arran]

@comradestryker said in Aeon Gun ACU:

If anything, it's the UEF that should have the range over all other ACUs - and I'm not trying to be biased here.
The point of UEF is to have Alpha damage and Range with their units, no?
For example, the Percy, and the Summit.
Why shouldn't the UEF ACU be any different? It already deals 200 damage per shot.
It probably wouldn't be that difficult to dodge either, considering it would only have half of the firerate as all other ACUs do.
Sniper UEF ACU woudn't be anywhere near as powerfull as an Aeon Sniper ACU.
Well... minus the nano, but it's a crappy version of the nano, anyway.
It wouldn't take much to overwhelm.

Cracked. UEF sniper com with nano. Perfectly balanced; what could go wrong?

@rezy-noob said in Aeon Gun ACU:

don't really see a problem with their guncom besides having a beyond broken chrono, shield is nice to be offensive and works great if you want to be volatile on the ground, kiting isn't too bad and it comes with a huge tax in a form of apm, mid and late game also comes down to gc being ignored for no reason whatsoever for 1 year by now.
can't see aeon guncom broken late game as well and i'd call it pretty garbage considering that:
1)uef has BaD bIlly NuKe that will surely not whipe a 10k investment randomly
2)sera has a small 50k hp buff and pretty good double gun to play vs land and some exps
3)cyb is just garbage but still gets access to cloak+lazer that can be brutal
aeon has +4 range, cool. (no chrono involved or banned from lobbies)
anything smaller than 3v3 can probably be facing the unstoppable aeon gun com but it's more of a powerspike that you should be at least trying to counter, it's also a combination of aeon having probably the most cost-efficient land in the meta that is also contributing to indirect guncom buff since it gives you access to cheap mobile shields

All true and everyone saying otherwise just can't handle it.

[Arran]

It takes about 1 second for a commander at full speed to walk that distance. Less if both are moving towards each other.
Very strong upgrade. All it takes is 1 second where your attention is diverted and it no longer matters.

[TheVVheelboy]

@arran said in Aeon Gun ACU:

All it takes is 1s of inattention to lose the game vs aeon gun com.

[FtXCommando]

This dude deadass in the same post said UEF ACU with Aeon gun range would be insane OP and then proceeded to argue that the distance doesn’t even matter.

[Zeldafanboy]

@arran

Range is probably one of the most important statistics in the game. If two units have the same move speed, the one with the higher range basically counters the one with less

[waffelzNoob]

"its not relevant at all bro, just hope ur opponent isnt paying attention!!"

[IndexLibrorum]

Why must everything be balanced into mediocrity? So what if one commander is a bit better than the others. Other factions have other units that have their own strengths.

In a game of rock-paper-scissors we don't complain about the rock winning from knife, we use paper. Let's not end up with what is essentially a reskin of the same unit.

That is not to say that the faction as a whole should be overpowered when compared to other factions as a whole. The chrono looks too strong, so does the GC. But these issues can be resolved without taking away an advantage; decrease their strength, don't remove it.

For those who are now thinking "yea but that's what I want with gunrange": I refer you to the "this distance is worth 200 mass" image above.

[ComradeStryker]

@IndexLibrorum

The problem with that "rock-paper-scissors" viewpoint... is that it assumes that everything has a 'perfect' counter to everything else.
And - arguably - sniper com does have its counter.
Albeit far from perfect.
That which is T2 Point Defense.

However, spending 800 mass on your own gun upgrade isn't worth it, as you're outranged, regardless;
So, you're forced to take the T2 route instead - and, on top of that, it's about 540 mass for a T2 PD.
But, we all know one T2 PD, two, or even three won't stop a rampaging Sniper Com.

The issue here is that the 'counter' isn't as effective as it may appear to be.

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An Aurora is a far better example of a more balanced unit as it has half HP for the extra range it has.
The same can't be said about the ACU - there is no 'con' to this huge 'pro' it has.

In fact, most, if not all, units that have superb range, they all have low HP. Auroras, Sniperbots, Fatboys, etc.

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But the extra range isn't just worth 200 mass - it also denies everything any other com can do or try to do.
Which is worth far more than can be put into mass values.

Another note here - which I have mentioned in a previous post above ^, is that the counter to something should be cheaper, at most the same value. However, this isn't the case for an Aeon sniper com.

There is also the case as to why Aeon Navy got nerfed with the last balance patch, too - but that's a slightly different story.

To put it blatantly. Rock counter scissors as well as paper - hence, leaving very little room for a proper counterplay from any of the 3 other factions.

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That being said... I completely agree, we don't want all units to be the same, otherwise, we will end up with just reskins, as you mentioned.

But, should an Aeon sniper com's range be THAT high?
No, it really shouldn't.

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~ Stryker

[Arran]

Perhaps those asking for gun nerf should play on maps larger than 5km?