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    Allow wagners to surface like subs

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Balance Discussion
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    • Chenbro101C
      Chenbro101
      last edited by Chenbro101

      The idea with this is to allow land production of the cybran faction to influence navy.
      I would like to gauge the response of this idea before committing time to make a demo of this.

      The problem.

      Certain maps give a large advantage in regards to having the capability to influence navy with land production. Even in high level games there have been examples of hover spam being very effective to support navy, usually by the dedicated land player switching production to hover units.

      Proposed solution

      Allow wagners to surface like subs. This would also give the unit another purpose besides being a raiding unit.

      There are many examples of how amphibious land is useful, e.g. #19469855.

      Of course salems being amphibious would be an obvious counterpoint to the proposed changes, so I would like to hear other player's thoughts on that also.

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      • ZeldafanboyZ
        Zeldafanboy
        last edited by

        Would they be stationary or able to move

        put the xbox units in the game pls u_u

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        • maudlin27M
          maudlin27
          last edited by maudlin27

          what about increasing their torpedo damage? If there was a concern it'd be too powerful their range could be reduced slightly since with their slow speed they'd then function relatively similar to hover tanks in that you can try and attack naval units but the naval units can kite and/or run away.

          They have just over twice the health of a sub and slightly less mass cost, but a fraction of the DPS (7.5 vs 37.5). Doubling their dps to 15 would still make them significantly weaker than a sub at naval combat (where the enemy stays in range), but might be enough for them to be usable as a last resort. However I dont know if this would cause any other issues from a naval balance perspective.

          M27AI and M28AI developer; Devlogs and more general AI development guide:
          https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v71-devlog
          https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v150

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          • ZeldafanboyZ
            Zeldafanboy
            last edited by

            15 dps is almost as worthless as 7.5. Give it a 200 damage salvo on a 10 second reload

            put the xbox units in the game pls u_u

            The_JanitorT 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • The_JanitorT
              The_Janitor @Zeldafanboy
              last edited by

              @zeldafanboy said in Allow wagners to surface like subs:

              15 dps is almost as worthless as 7.5. Give it a 200 damage salvo on a 10 second reload

              I mean... it fits with "hit and run" tactics that cyb would prob do...

              Probably would be strong... get few of them, deal 2k dmg and back off... wait a bit and repeat.

              Secure the kill and send it off.

              ZeldafanboyZ 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • ZeldafanboyZ
                Zeldafanboy @The_Janitor
                last edited by

                @hinthunter

                The Wagner has meh range and much lower speed than naval units so you could only really use it near the shore defensively, which allows Cybran to get back into the water. Navy can easily kite it otherwise

                put the xbox units in the game pls u_u

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                • JipJ
                  Jip
                  last edited by

                  I don't think what you're suggesting is possible. @Balthazar could you enlighten us?

                  A work of art is never finished, merely abandoned

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                  • B
                    Balthazar Team Lead
                    last edited by

                    We're very limited on what we can do with motion type stuff like that. Only submarines can surface like that.

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                    • B
                      Balthazar Team Lead
                      last edited by

                      To elaborate, the only motion type options are:
                      Aircraft
                      Amph-floating
                      Amph-seabed
                      Land
                      Land again (there's two separate land-motion types that are identical except for the name, one's not used).
                      Hover
                      Ship
                      Sub
                      None (Structure)
                      To have anything that uses a combination of them would require you to swap out the unit in code, which breaks half the games systems.

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                      • veteranasheV
                        veteranashe
                        last edited by

                        Curious what makes the Salem walk on land?

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                        • JipJ
                          Jip
                          last edited by

                          That would be an engine hack, specifically designed for that unit

                          A work of art is never finished, merely abandoned

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                          • BlackYpsB
                            BlackYps
                            last edited by

                            Doesn't the Salem just use amph-floating?

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                            • Chenbro101C
                              Chenbro101
                              last edited by

                              I see. I thought it would be simply something like changing the layer the unit was on. The unit script for some units has a OnLayerChange function, so I thought that the ui button simply changes the layer or something. How can I find the code that handles ui interactions like submarines submerge button?

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                              • T
                                Tagada Balance Team
                                last edited by

                                While it might seem like a cool idea, it's neither feasible from the code perspective nor balance one. You can't have units that can go under your naval force and suddenly submerge and obliterate your cruisers/destroyers.

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