T3 omni countered by t2 stealth?

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I'm no expert on all the stealth options and who can see what, but I would have logically assumed that a T3 Omni would have not been countered by a lower T2 stealth field generator?
Had a game recently where I couldnt see the enemy base buildings despite having a T3 Omni, watched the replay and they have T2 stealth field gen buildings providing full coverage of their bases.
Is it just me or does that not make sense?

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The omni radius is the red circle, it is a lot smaller. The radar radius is the blue circle, which is what you were scanning the base with. The omni radius sees through stealth, the radar radius does not.

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Crazy the size of the learning curve on this game. I've been playing for 7+ years and never knew that. I'd be a fan of additions to the unit DB where text explanations, tips and advice are added for everything in the game.
I haven't a clue what the cybran perimeter monitoring station does for example either. And i don't know why you would use naval aircraft carriers at all.

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Perimeter monitor gives constant vision of the area (radius is the same as the omni part of a t3 radar)
T3 Aircraft carriers give torp bomber resistant AA for your fleet (much harder to kill than cruisers).

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Why would you make a UEF Atlantis?

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Because it’s funny

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@scout_more_often
It has good vision and intel, coupled with decent torpedo damage so is much more versatile than a T3 aircraft carrier

So you might build it for similar reasons to T3 carriers for other factions (but not as relevant for UEF since they have shield boats to boost their cruiser HP), while there're also various other niche scenarios. E.g. if you want to start navy to help a teammate you can get an atlantis for virtually the same mass cost as just getting a t3 naval factory.

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https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v44-devlog

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So what can see a Cybran ACU with stealth? Is it only the inner ring of a T3 Omni?

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Direct vision and omni!

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Ok, what is the definition of direct vision. I had a situation recently where two GCs were standing very close to a stealthed Cybran ACU and they couldn't see the ACU. After a few seconds they did but i assumed that was due to the Cybran losing power as his base crumbled....?

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@scout_more_often Well cybran ACU might also have cloak, which also hides from vision. stealth is only against radar, so if the ACU only has stealth, you can see it normally and with omni. If it has stealth and cloak, then you need omni.
But there's also a glitch, that lets units appear far later than they should, but not sure if this could make a real difference with slow units like ACUs and GCs.

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The GC would have seen the ACU regardless since it has omni.

@nex ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶c̶a̶k̶e̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶e̶a̶t̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶t̶o̶o̶ you can't have cloak and teleport at the same time.

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@deletethis True🤔
so probably a glitch
or it teleported in😎

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Cloak = invisible to radar, invisible to vision (😲 ). Under omni it becomes an unidentified radar signature. Note you will be able to see footprints from cloaked ACU, so if it's walking, you can still groundattack it.

Stealth = no radar signature. Still visible with vision and produces radar signature if you have omni cover on it.

Note that land vision and water vision are two different things.

Also see here for detecting subs with T3 spyplanes;
https://forum.faforever.com/topic/3926/cybran-stealthing/7?_=1657994859851

I recommend using the rings to see.

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@jcvjcvjcvjcv said in T3 omni countered by t2 stealth?:

Cloak = invisible to radar

No, cloaked units can still be seen by normal radar unless they ALSO have stealth.

For example, the fire beetle has cloaking without stealth. The mole can toggle cloaking, but it won't have stealth.

For units that have cloak without stealth, you can use a stealth field to hide them from radar (a t2 stealth field generator, or the t2 mobile stealth field "deceiver")

But other units have stealth AND cloaking, like the upgraded Cybran ACU. So they are invisible to everything except omni.

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Cloack = Vision
Stealth = Radar

Ex : Deceiver has stealth, you can't see it on radar but you can visually see it by going next to it.
FireBeetle has cloack, you can't see it by going near it but radar will pick its radar signature

Cybran ACU can get stealth then cloaking. With both you can't see him visually (you still see footprint or gun/mazer firing tho) and it doesn't appear on radar.

Omni trump both stealth and cloak if you get in range.

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@arma473 said in T3 omni countered by t2 stealth?:

@jcvjcvjcvjcv said in T3 omni countered by t2 stealth?:

Cloak = invisible to radar

No, cloaked units can still be seen by normal radar unless they ALSO have stealth.

For example, the fire beetle has cloaking without stealth. The mole can toggle cloaking, but it won't have stealth.

For units that have cloak without stealth, you can use a stealth field to hide them from radar (a t2 stealth field generator, or the t2 mobile stealth field "deceiver")

But other units have stealth AND cloaking, like the upgraded Cybran ACU. So they are invisible to everything except omni.

Quoting out of context much? Right after your cut I already wrote "Under omni it becomes an unidentified radar signature" 😁

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@jcvjcvjcvjcv yeah but it also becomes an unidentified radar signature under non-omni radar, so "Cloak = invisible to radar" is just false.

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Oops. Yes.