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    The current pre-release of the client ("pioneer" in the version) is only compatible to itself. So you can only play with other testers. Please be aware!

    T3 omni countered by t2 stealth?

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    • QuietJoyQ Offline
      QuietJoy
      last edited by

      I'm no expert on all the stealth options and who can see what, but I would have logically assumed that a T3 Omni would have not been countered by a lower T2 stealth field generator?
      Had a game recently where I couldnt see the enemy base buildings despite having a T3 Omni, watched the replay and they have T2 stealth field gen buildings providing full coverage of their bases.
      Is it just me or does that not make sense?

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      • JipJ Offline
        Jip
        last edited by

        The omni radius is the red circle, it is a lot smaller. The radar radius is the blue circle, which is what you were scanning the base with. The omni radius sees through stealth, the radar radius does not.

        A work of art is never finished, merely abandoned

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        • QuietJoyQ Offline
          QuietJoy
          last edited by

          Crazy the size of the learning curve on this game. I've been playing for 7+ years and never knew that. I'd be a fan of additions to the unit DB where text explanations, tips and advice are added for everything in the game.
          I haven't a clue what the cybran perimeter monitoring station does for example either. And i don't know why you would use naval aircraft carriers at all.

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          • maudlin27M Offline
            maudlin27
            last edited by

            Perimeter monitor gives constant vision of the area (radius is the same as the omni part of a t3 radar)
            T3 Aircraft carriers give torp bomber resistant AA for your fleet (much harder to kill than cruisers).

            M27AI and M28AI developer; Devlogs and more general AI development guide:
            https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v71-devlog
            https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v241

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            • QuietJoyQ Offline
              QuietJoy
              last edited by

              Why would you make a UEF Atlantis?

              maudlin27M 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • FtXCommandoF Offline
                FtXCommando
                last edited by

                Because it’s funny

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                • maudlin27M Offline
                  maudlin27 @QuietJoy
                  last edited by

                  @scout_more_often
                  It has good vision and intel, coupled with decent torpedo damage so is much more versatile than a T3 aircraft carrier

                  So you might build it for similar reasons to T3 carriers for other factions (but not as relevant for UEF since they have shield boats to boost their cruiser HP), while there're also various other niche scenarios. E.g. if you want to start navy to help a teammate you can get an atlantis for virtually the same mass cost as just getting a t3 naval factory.

                  M27AI and M28AI developer; Devlogs and more general AI development guide:
                  https://forum.faforever.com/topic/2373/ai-development-guide-and-m27ai-v71-devlog
                  https://forum.faforever.com/topic/5331/m28ai-devlog-v241

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                  • QuietJoyQ Offline
                    QuietJoy
                    last edited by

                    So what can see a Cybran ACU with stealth? Is it only the inner ring of a T3 Omni?

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                    • JipJ Offline
                      Jip
                      last edited by

                      Direct vision and omni!

                      A work of art is never finished, merely abandoned

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                      • QuietJoyQ Offline
                        QuietJoy
                        last edited by QuietJoy

                        Ok, what is the definition of direct vision. I had a situation recently where two GCs were standing very close to a stealthed Cybran ACU and they couldn't see the ACU. After a few seconds they did but i assumed that was due to the Cybran losing power as his base crumbled....?

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                        • N Offline
                          Nex @QuietJoy
                          last edited by Nex

                          @scout_more_often Well cybran ACU might also have cloak, which also hides from vision. stealth is only against radar, so if the ACU only has stealth, you can see it normally and with omni. If it has stealth and cloak, then you need omni.
                          But there's also a glitch, that lets units appear far later than they should, but not sure if this could make a real difference with slow units like ACUs and GCs.

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                          • deletethisD Offline
                            deletethis
                            last edited by deletethis

                            The GC would have seen the ACU regardless since it has omni.

                            @nex ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶c̶a̶k̶e̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶e̶a̶t̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶t̶o̶o̶ you can't have cloak and teleport at the same time.

                            N J 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                            • N Offline
                              Nex @deletethis
                              last edited by

                              @deletethis True🤔
                              so probably a glitch
                              or it teleported in😎

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                              • J Offline
                                jcvjcvjcvjcv @deletethis
                                last edited by jcvjcvjcvjcv

                                Cloak = invisible to radar, invisible to vision (😲 ). Under omni it becomes an unidentified radar signature. Note you will be able to see footprints from cloaked ACU, so if it's walking, you can still groundattack it.

                                Stealth = no radar signature. Still visible with vision and produces radar signature if you have omni cover on it.

                                Note that land vision and water vision are two different things.

                                Also see here for detecting subs with T3 spyplanes;
                                https://forum.faforever.com/topic/3926/cybran-stealthing/7?_=1657994859851

                                I recommend using the rings to see.

                                arma473A 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                • arma473A Offline
                                  arma473 @jcvjcvjcvjcv
                                  last edited by

                                  @jcvjcvjcvjcv said in T3 omni countered by t2 stealth?:

                                  Cloak = invisible to radar

                                  No, cloaked units can still be seen by normal radar unless they ALSO have stealth.

                                  For example, the fire beetle has cloaking without stealth. The mole can toggle cloaking, but it won't have stealth.

                                  For units that have cloak without stealth, you can use a stealth field to hide them from radar (a t2 stealth field generator, or the t2 mobile stealth field "deceiver")

                                  But other units have stealth AND cloaking, like the upgraded Cybran ACU. So they are invisible to everything except omni.

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                                  • BrannouB Offline
                                    Brannou
                                    last edited by

                                    Cloack = Vision
                                    Stealth = Radar

                                    Ex : Deceiver has stealth, you can't see it on radar but you can visually see it by going next to it.
                                    FireBeetle has cloack, you can't see it by going near it but radar will pick its radar signature

                                    Cybran ACU can get stealth then cloaking. With both you can't see him visually (you still see footprint or gun/mazer firing tho) and it doesn't appear on radar.

                                    Omni trump both stealth and cloak if you get in range.

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                                    • J Offline
                                      jcvjcvjcvjcv @arma473
                                      last edited by

                                      @arma473 said in T3 omni countered by t2 stealth?:

                                      @jcvjcvjcvjcv said in T3 omni countered by t2 stealth?:

                                      Cloak = invisible to radar

                                      No, cloaked units can still be seen by normal radar unless they ALSO have stealth.

                                      For example, the fire beetle has cloaking without stealth. The mole can toggle cloaking, but it won't have stealth.

                                      For units that have cloak without stealth, you can use a stealth field to hide them from radar (a t2 stealth field generator, or the t2 mobile stealth field "deceiver")

                                      But other units have stealth AND cloaking, like the upgraded Cybran ACU. So they are invisible to everything except omni.

                                      Quoting out of context much? Right after your cut I already wrote "Under omni it becomes an unidentified radar signature" 😁

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                                      • N Offline
                                        Nex @jcvjcvjcvjcv
                                        last edited by

                                        @jcvjcvjcvjcv yeah but it also becomes an unidentified radar signature under non-omni radar, so "Cloak = invisible to radar" is just false.

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                                        • J Offline
                                          jcvjcvjcvjcv
                                          last edited by

                                          Oops. Yes.

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