Decrease air unit HP

Suggestion:
Reduce all air unit HP and anti air damage by a significant, uniform factor. A third or a tenth or something.

Why:
To make them more vulnerable to ground units while landed, without effecting other components of air.

In a recent game a swarm of ASF were landed and overrun with mantis. They didn't take off for some time and despite this not a single ASF was destroyed. T3 v T1 units should be quite a disparity, but I feel that getting caught with your air down should be punished significantly, and is a reasonable vulnerability. At a quick glance I don't see how this would effect much else.

What are your thoughts?

A mantis can kill an ASF in a bit over a minute.

Just here to point out that this also has the consequence of making flaks and other AA with splash damage far less effective vs units in transports, and making air to ground far more effective when it accidentally splashes against air. The latter effect is likely undesirable - imagine a Czar with 7k hp dying to the splash from 3 strat bombers impacting on inties.

@archsimkat good points! Thank you for pointing this out.

I must see if I can make a mod that tries this. I have not made a mod that bulk modifies things before.

this is obviously a balance suggestion. Why did you put it in suggestions?

@turinturambar I guess I didn't really consider it balance as it would be something applied across all factions equally, and not some "Buff/nerf this unit plz" idea. Now that you point it out it's obviously a thing about balance between unit types. Though it still does not feel like the type of suggestion that is common to balance discussions. And I don't have the replay ID requisite for that forum, though I believe the scenario is simple enough to imagine.

It is indeed absurd that ASF can absorb a Scathis shot without dying, and interceptors have as much health as a t1 tank. I have landed interceptors before to absorb shots so my ACU can try to escape. They won't actually block land units (because they lift off automatically if anything comes by) but they can absorb shots that otherwise would go into an ACU.

@arma473 lf that is not banabable, l think l will start doing that...

@archsimkat said in Decrease air unit HP:

Just here to point out that this also has the consequence of making flaks and other AA with splash damage far less effective vs units in transports, and making air to ground far more effective when it accidentally splashes against air. The latter effect is likely undesirable - imagine a Czar with 7k hp dying to the splash from 3 strat bombers impacting on inties.

It's a good point.

One specific thing you mention, strat bombs exploding because they touch enemy ASF, that doesn't happen any more, since a balance patch in the last year or so.

But this would especially affect t1 anti-air against transports because of the lack of splash damage. Interceptors already sometimes shoot engies instead of aeon transports. It would become even harder to shoot down an aeon transport. Maybe make t1 AA not collide with land units? So the shots would pass through to hit the transport? And consider doing the same thing for SAMs?

As far as flaks being less able to kill land units clinging to transports, I don't know if that would be a bad change. It would change the balance a bit, but not necessarily in a bad way.

@valki It's not bannable to put units near your ACU when you're trying to run away xD you might have to put the inties on hold fire so they don't jump up and chase after an enemy interceptor

One specific thing you mention, strat bombs exploding because they touch enemy ASF, that doesn't happen any more, since a balance patch in the last year or so.

Yeah, that's why I specifically said a strat bombing an intie. Strats can still bomb every other air units except ASF afaik.

@archsimkat They need to fix that, then. There's no reason you should be able to try to block strat bombs with inties, or swift winds, or t1 bombers, or t1 transports, etc.

Sounds to me that t1 land deals as quick with t3 air as t1 air deals with t3 land

For what it matters in Supcom Vanilla what Kale is saying was true.

“there’s no reason” it’s called simulated projectiles and one of the defining unique things about the game.

@ftxcommando said in Decrease air unit HP:

“there’s no reason” it’s called simulated projectiles and one of the defining unique things about the game.

I remember epicly blocking a nuke with a czar to save my ACU because my anti near it wasn't loaded. If I couldn't do that well then this game would be dead to me.

Please, look at Supreme Commander original Vanilla and 4th Dimension Mod, that already had similar aproach.

You also have to think of T1 arty shooting down air units, it happens a lot with unties now, might happen with asf a bit

@veteranashe TBH that seems fine to me. I don't think ASF fly low enough for that to be a common problem. And T1 Arty should be able to shred through landed ASF, just like how some guys with Tommy guns in a Jeep can take down the Luftwaffe.